The Fretboards very own Axe FX II VERSUS Kemper thread

Drew_TNBD

Okay... so every bloody guitar forum on the planet has one of these threads. Why should we be any different!?!

I've used both, but don't have a lot of experience. I've used Jim's a couple of times, and have a pretty decent understanding of how it works. But I have more experience with the Kemper as I owned one for a couple of days.

Now the Kemper is easier to use. It just is. The knobs on the front are context sensitive and is easy to get your head around. There are menus you can go through, but largely all you need to do is turn a knob, and you'll be on the page you want to be on. This speeds up editing, and when I was using it, I really didn't feel I needed any sort of editor.

The Axe FX involves a lot of scrolling and menus, and it was apparent to me that the best way to edit the thing is via a PC/Mac. Not sure about editing on an iPad, I believe there is an editor but I don't know how good it is.

It's the live usage that I'm really ignorant of. Just never done it. The Axe FX II seems on paper to be more designed for live usage, but the Kemper does have the CabDriver tech and now comes with a poweramp (when I had mine, it didn't have a poweramp, so I didn't try it into a cab)

There are too many bellends on the Kemper forum espousing the virtues of FRFR. I'm not interested in that. I want to use a real guitar cab. "Why would you want to do that!! You're losing half of the benefits!" - nah bruv.... leave it out. Ultimately the lack of information on this front puts me off a little bit.

As I have used Jim's rig and heard it through a real guitar cab, with a poweramp... I am convinced by the sounds. It sounded great.

So... this thread; use it to moan, fanboi, and hopefully (and preferably!) post some useful information about either unit!!

Handsome_Chris

I was warned by a Kemper user to stick with the AF2 for live use.  His point was that a flub in the power supply could result in having to do a 3 minute power cycle.  The axe will take aboot 10 seconds.

I think that, as far as I know, they are fairly similar.  Mapps has tried out both and found the KPA a bit meh.

Saying that, there have probably been an arms race of FW updates that render these observations obsolete.

guitarfishbay

Kemper appeals most to me right now because of how it works.  I just want to profile my own amps and keep going - for the sake of total recall, better reliability, smaller size etc.  I want to keep my Roadster half stack to be able to continue creating new profiles as and when necessary based on my own tastes.

Other people's Kemper patches I'm not so bothered about.  As noted in my pickup thread I like quite vintage/crunchy guitars yet tend to favour modern high gain amps.  From what I see, most of the high gain/metal patches created for Kemper are dialed in with people using EMGs or high output passives.  I'm dubious as to whether those patches will be any use for me.  The main other patches I want access to are a 5150 III and Vox AC30 type.  Pretty much everything else I like I can get from my Roadster setup already.

The fact you can build up patches from scratch on an Axe FX 2 is a big bonus since you get access to all the amps and can dial them in whatever way you want.  The downside is that I don't enjoy flicking through IRs trying to find something close to what I want then using post EQs to sort it again.  Possibly a solution would be to create my own IRs with my own cab based on the patch I'm dialing in.  I've actually never created my own IR before, but I guess it would make the workflow make sense with the Axe.

As for live, I am still not totally sold on the Kemper as it stands currently.  There isn't even an official foot switch and I'm not interested in using 3rd party stuff.

I really am the type of person who wants to buy something and just have it work.  I'm not anti tweak, but I am anti bodge!

Either way, I'm waiting for NAMM, and will be unlikely to purchase a digital setup until the latter half of this year.  If I did buy an Axe, I'd probably update it to the latest firmware and just leave it unless something major came out in a firmware update.  I won't buy a Kemper unless it is possible to buy the whole setup and easily set up a live set of patches.

Sound wise, I'm no longer concerned - both units sound good from what I've heard.  I have no direct playing experience with either though.

octatonic

Agree with guitarfishbay.

Drew_TNBD

For me it is the reverse; I'm really not fussed about profiling amps. Although I did profile my Satch JVM when I had one, and it worked really well.

I'm more interested in using the Kemper to collect amplifiers that I otherwise cannot afford, or don't want to buy. My tonal tastes shift a lot, and the Kemper seems like a good way to solve that problem. The Axe does too, aside from price and configuration overkill.

I'm also waiting for NAMM to be out of the way before I go back to looking at my amplification. I've currently got the Ironheart 120, which I've decided isn't for me. Will probably sell it. I've got the 5150III, which is nice, but the channel 1/2 thing pisses me off. I'm at the point where the combination of a valve amps reliability, tonal shifting (as the tubes get hotter!), weight, and sound palette limitations, are all conspiring to make me truly considering going fully digital.

octatonic

I like the flexibility of the Axe.

When I need amps, it has them all- but I also tend to use a small number of amps, with a wide variety of effects.

That said, I MOSTLY use the CAA amp for 90% of what I do these days.

Drew_TNBD

octatonic said:

That said, I MOSTLY use the CAA amp for 90% of what I do these days.

That surprises me. What sort of shizzle are you doing these days, and do you use the Axe for effects or your pedalboard?

octatonic

Drew_fx said:

octatonic said:

That said, I MOSTLY use the CAA amp for 90% of what I do these days.

That surprises me. What sort of shizzle are you doing these days, and do you use the Axe for effects or your pedalboard?

The insta-composition based loopery stuff isn't where I am at right now, which was what the Axe was great at.

So really rock based music, with a couple of sounds, solo boost, delay, octave, wah is all I really need.

I have a small pedalboard with the CAA and a Zilla cab, and a couple of guitars that I favour (Forshage, Anderson, Suhr).

It is still a very flexible sound, and I don't have to mess with menu's.

Drew_TNBD

As an aside.. conversation with the wife over gmail just now...

me:  I have £xxxx in my account at the moment

Paid tomorrow

If I didn't need money for rent and California, I'd buy an Axe FX.

 Sent at 14:44 on Thursday

 Makiko:  Lol

you should make a ISA account

put some money in there

 me:  bawls to that

 Makiko:  and you will earn around 10 quid a month

you might save enough to buy an axe fx in a few years xx

 me:  LOL

Nice to know my wife has a sense of humour. Er...

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

For me it is the reverse; I'm really not fussed about profiling amps. Although I did profile my Satch JVM when I had one, and it worked really well.

1) I'm more interested in using the Kemper to collect amplifiers that I otherwise cannot afford, or don't want to buy. My tonal tastes shift a lot, and the Kemper seems like a good way to solve that problem. The Axe does too, aside from price and configuration overkill.

I'm also waiting for NAMM to be out of the way before I go back to looking at my amplification. 2. I've currently got the Ironheart 120, which I've decided isn't for me. Will probably sell it. I've got the 5150III, which is nice, but the channel 1/2 thing pisses me off. I'm at the point where the combination of a valve amps reliability, tonal shifting (as the tubes get hotter!), weight, and sound palette limitations, are all conspiring to make me truly considering going fully digital.

1. Yeah I originally thought that, but you are really limited to whatever the person creating to profile was going for.  If that isn't what you're going for then you're back to tweaking to get what you need - if it is possible with the lesser options available.  

2. Honestly, and very much just IMHO, I only feel like a very small number of amps/cabs are worth buying these days at the 'high end' of the rock guitar market.

Having done a decent amount of my own buying/selling/testing... when it boils down to it, I think the only high gain amps I've tried and really really liked as potential full setups (clean rhythm lead, decent loop, enough power, separate controls etc) are my Roadster, Rectifier 2x12/4x12 cabs, my EVH 412 cab, and the EVH 100 watt head.  I like the Ironheart and think it is wicked for the price but it isn't quite in the same league as those two - it sounds great and it works but given the opportunity I'd own the EVH instead of the Laney (as I've said before in PMs).  I've yet to try a CAA but in all honesty I've stopped researching new valve amps these days as I feel I'm happy with both what I have, and what I'd plan to have given the opportunity.

I really do see the next step as just making what I like to use more transportable/reliable/consistent.  I guess when it boils down to it, I don't think I want or need as many different amps as I thought I did.

xJonnysixstring

Been gigging the Kemper for about 8 months now, Only once had an issue with power loss and boot up, but that was down to a sound guy giving me a bad power source. It has been rock solid in performance using a FCB1010 with the uno processor upgrade, I generally DI into the house system and go in ears but when I need a back line the Tech 21 Power engine has worked great!

I did two albums with it in December too and probably got my best recorded guitar tone ever! I am a convert it has to be said:) My only niggle for live work is that you have to rely on midi cables and the midi sockets at the back are standard plastic jobs that are already worryingly wobbly.

Drew_TNBD

Having looked at the amount of profiles out there, I don't see any limitations really. There is such a broad spectrum of stuff; it'll take you a lot of time to filter down to what you think is good though, which is one of the negatives.

Most valve amps at the moment (particularly the newer ones) just don't interest me all that much. But what is going on in the digital world really does.

octatonic

Drew_fx said:

As an aside.. conversation with the wife over gmail just now...

me:  I have £xxxx in my account at the moment

Paid tomorrow

If I didn't need money for rent and California, I'd buy an Axe FX.

 Sent at 14:44 on Thursday

 Makiko:  Lol

you should make a ISA account

put some money in there

 me:  bawls to that

 Makiko:  and you will earn around 10 quid a month

you might save enough to buy an axe fx in a few years xx

 me:  LOL

Nice to know my wife has a sense of humour. Er...

Did you reply with "If you loved me you'd dance nude on weekends and buy one for me from the proceeds"?

Drew_TNBD

Will see what she says...

octatonic

Drew_fx said:

Will see what she says...

Doesn't work as well in the UK, I don't think.

In the US you can use dollar bills.

Flinging pound coins at strippers just makes them cross.

ThePrettyDamned

What drew said.

If I had the money for a kemper, I'd get one because it's a damn sight cheaper than buying 2 or 3 top valve amps, even if you include the cost of a nice cab to go with it.

I like the idea of silverface twin reverb clean, Peavey/EVH heavy rhythm, mesa dual rec lead and maybe see how that would go.

A bandit will do in the meantime...

Drew_TNBD

Regarding the load up time.... valve amps take 2 minutes or more to be 'ready' to play. I don't really buy it as a problem personally. The power outage thing is a risk with most devices.

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

Regarding the load up time.... valve amps take 2 minutes or more to be 'ready' to play. I don't really buy it as a problem personally. The power outage thing is a risk with most devices.

Totally agree, plus if there is a total power outage you won't be the only person with a problem either!

Handsome_Chris

Drew_fx said:

Regarding the load up time.... valve amps take 2 minutes or more to be 'ready' to play. I don't really buy it as a problem personally. The power outage thing is a risk with most devices.

I've probably been lucky with my Marshall (JCM 800 - 2210) and Orange (Thunderverb 50).  I've had a power drops on 'em during lightning storms and the such, and they came back on again pretty much instantaneously - certainly not two minutes.

Drew_TNBD

Handsome_Chris said:

Drew_fx said:

Regarding the load up time.... valve amps take 2 minutes or more to be 'ready' to play. I don't really buy it as a problem personally. The power outage thing is a risk with most devices.

I've probably been lucky with my Marshall (JCM 800 - 2210) and Orange (Thunderverb 50).  I've had a power drops on 'em during lightning storms and the such, and they came back on again pretty much instantaneously - certainly not two minutes.

It's the tubes guv. They need time to aclimate. I wouldn't be surprised if you'd damaged your power tubes at some point and not realized it.

Handsome_Chris

@martinw and @ICBM will be more the master of this than me; however, during a short power failure, less than 5 seconds, the heater element in the valves aren't going to drop temperature that much.

I'm not sure how much damage, if any, what damage a quick off/on of the supply will do to the valve.  I've alway believe valves to be fairly robust litte sods.