The forum, its present and its future

ourmaninthenorth · December 2018

p90fool said:

dindude said:

No problem with Drew returning, but this forum is a worse place when you get a few who dominate, so don’t give him too much power, eh

I actually think the opposite. If he has a real stake in making it work via involvement with a YouTube channel, promotional work and a general feeling of usefulness he will probably be less of a dick.

Drew can be a great guy, but a bored, depressed Drew is a loose cannon.

Aren't we all?

I've had a few run ins with Drew and others, and yet here we all remain.

It's the nature of things.

If Drew wants to come back...how many sugars?

I wish you well Lee, it's a big brief you've taken on.

Emp_Fab · December 2018

I don't agree with the perma-ban policy and the conveniently-selected rules that block Lixarto from returning but let Drew back in. If you're going to give people a second shot and an opportunity to demonstrate they have changed, then I see no sensible reason why Lixarto should be denied this. We all fuck up, we all go through shit times where we act like dicks. If you're granting clemency, grant it fairly.

As for Drew... You might be surprised to hear that I would tentatively welcome his return. I argued against his banning at the time. I think there is a certain peace on the forum now that I would be loathe to lose but, if he can keep his shit together and not return to the days of 'ADHD kid who's forgotten his Ritalin and just downed a six-pack of Monster' then he will be an asset to the forum. :-) If, however, he returns to form then you will be inviting anarchy and the ultimate demise of the community here if you don't then act swiftly and decisively. I'm keeping an open mind.

As for the rest of the stuff - all good ideas in my opinion. My only question is, this sounds like a shitload of work for you Lee - writing a forum from the ground up ?! On your own ?

digitalscream · December 2018

darcym said:

@digitalscream
Can I ask for clarifications on some of the interesting and potentially exciting new plans in your vision going forward.
are you going to be the sole owner of the forum now and as such the only decision maker / vision for the forum ?
The forum is a raging success it's filled a huge hole left by music radar, hugeracks, and a few other niche forums eg: bareknuckles etc. I take on board the critique of Vanilla and the problems it causes, but is there a risk of creating a brand new forum stack and the requirement to fund and maintain it (think security and responsibility for protecting peoples data) actually going to benefit the forum, the core functionality is there and works (although I don't know the effort it's taking to maintain it) and will this not put the forum into a financially dependant state (more than it is now) as it will move from hosting bills to hosting, development, maintenance, which people should be funded for but will it not raise the risk and dependency on money, which the current model has done well to keep to a minimal risk.

The issue is that Vanilla isn't really capable of a few things that we've been wanting to do for a while. I'm actually spending as much time keeping it running (and discovering bits of poor design along the way) as I would with something I've got complete control over. There's also the fact that it's not really well-designed to scale in a meaningful way. It's a nightmare to develop new features for, and there are a few limitations which are going to hurt us in terms of performance within the next six months or so.

It's not a decision I've taken lightly, but the majority of the effort is in getting it to a production-ready state...and it won't be . Once it's there, it'll be just as stable as Vanilla is, and it won't cost any more to run than Vanilla does. I'm not about the money; as long as it funds its own existence, that's good enough for me.

And, of course, if the initial project is a failure - or something comes up which means a re-think or re-design is necessary - then we also have the fallback of continuing to use Vanilla until such a time as a/the better alternative is ready.

The key point is that I don't have a deadline for the overall completion of the initial project; the only targets I'm setting are for completion of the current stage, which right now is the prototype/proof of concept (base functionality, probably about 70-80% of the final product). That should be done by the new year, and I'll get the guys in our user group to give it a once over, then work out the next steps.

darcym said:
Bringing Drew back - I don't have a problem with this as his knowledge on certain topics was both useful and interesting, but it is it "he's coming back same as before" or "he's coming back and he's been told to stop the behaviour that got him banned".
The forum has been a mostly nicer place without - but it's also lost something in terms of the music industry knowledge that he's part of, but I'd personally not trade that for a youtube channel and the return of the total dick behaviour and aggressive attitude he brings. If he can park that at the door and bring the nice bit back without the problem I'd welcome him, but I'm concerned, I've personally left the forum for a while due to him being on this forum (at the same time I've had some amazing information and some great tips and tricks based on his posts and direct interaction).
I'd like to feel comfortable personally that if someone who received a ban is coming back he understand what behaviour needs to change, I'm asking as this will impact my personal choice of how I use the forum going forward eg: just use it for classifieds sales, or continue to post / read other parts).

This was actually prompted by Drew going back over his old posts and feeling quite shitty about them, and in the time since he's removed a lot of the contributing factors in his life. I can't really say any more, as it's a pretty personal thing and I'd be stepping over the line by repeating it.

It's awfully business-y language, but suffice to say that I'm confident that the plan we've got in place is going to help both him and us keep a productive working relationship going

Given all of that, though, and the circumstances under which everything went to crap, I'd be lying said we weren't going to keep an eye on things. However, that goes both ways; in the same way that we expect Drew to stay on the straight and narrow, we also expect the few on here who object to refrain from baiting him (as has happened in the past).

Basically...I'm hoping everybody can be grown-up about it, and then we can all get something good out of this new world we're in.

fftc · December 2018

When do we find out Drews new name so I can block him straight away?
I've been on a few forums down the years and he was one of the most unpleasant people I have encountered. No amount of 'music biz knowledge' makes up for that.

Teetonetal · December 2018

I'm all for this. The forum has been a poorer place of late and it feels like a shot in thè arm is overdue. Good luck @digitalscream seems like a lot of work is coming your way.

DarnWeight · December 2018

fftc said:

When do we find out Drews new name so I can block him straight away?
I've been on a few forums down the years and he was one of the most unpleasant people I have encountered. No amount of 'music biz knowledge' makes up for that.

Ditto. There shouldn't be another set of rules just to accommodate the odd member (and I mean that in every sense of the word) that we need to make "allowances" for.

Iamnobody · December 2018

It’s good that you’ve got the drive to do this @digitalscream but like Emp and others I have concerns about what you’d be taking on. If you make it completely bespoke - what happens if you walk away from it, would someone else be able to take it on/learn it?

Do you want the burden of having to keep it secure and updated?

The answer to those types of questions might be yes, if so that’s great.

Personally I don’t think the forum needs to have a YouTube channel - but that’s based on my own interests and use of the forum. If it’s what you want and you will be supported by other members who’ll like it then it’s a great idea.

Bans - no problem with Drew coming back but I think you need to open that door to others...

Finally thanks to you and @TTony ;for keeping this place ticking over - it’s become a great place despite the ups and downs over the years. A forum is made largely by its contributors but it needs some sensible heads behind the scenes to keep the ship steady, and deal with all the shit, technical know how and God knows how much of your free time.

digitalscream · December 2018

Emp_Fab said:

I don't agree with the perma-ban policy and the conveniently-selected rules that block Lixarto from returning but let Drew back in. If you're going to give people a second shot and an opportunity to demonstrate they have changed, then I see no sensible reason why Lixarto should be denied this. We all fuck up, we all go through shit times where we act like dicks. If you're granting clemency, grant it fairly.

They're not "conveniently-selected" - the rule under which Lixarto was perma-banned has been there right from the beginning; in fact, it's the only one for which a perma-ban is specified (ie creating a new account to get around the imposition of a spell in the cooler). He knew that when he did it, because he had a hand in creating that very rule. That said, with everything else he did (and the way he reacted when I asked him to stop), he was pretty lucky to get away with just a week in the cooler up to that point.

Emp_Fab said:

As for Drew... You might be surprised to hear that I would tentatively welcome his return. I argued against his banning at the time. I think there is a certain peace on the forum now that I would be loathe to lose but, if he can keep his shit together and not return to the days of 'ADHD kid who's forgotten his Ritalin and just downed a six-pack of Monster' then he will be an asset to the forum. :-) If, however, he returns to form then you will be inviting anarchy and the ultimate demise of the community here if you don't then act swiftly and decisively. I'm keeping an open mind.

Thank you - I do recall you arguing against his ban, and I was hoping you'd see it this way.

Emp_Fab said:

As for the rest of the stuff - all good ideas in my opinion. My only question is, this sounds like a shitload of work for you Lee - writing a forum from the ground up ?! On your own ?

Forums really aren't that complicated when you get down to it. Every problem and design point involved in the creation of one is incredibly well-understood, including the optimisation of the data storage, almost to the point where everything's either just a case of hooking the building blocks together or thinking about the future. The bit that was worrying me was the spam protection, but I've already solved that problem.

digitalscream · December 2018

DarnWeight said:

fftc said:

When do we find out Drews new name so I can block him straight away?
I've been on a few forums down the years and he was one of the most unpleasant people I have encountered. No amount of 'music biz knowledge' makes up for that.

Ditto. There shouldn't be another set of rules just to accommodate the odd member (and I mean that in every sense of the word) that we need to make "allowances" for.

Try reading my posts. I've already explained how this isn't another set of rules to accommodate anybody. In fact, it's nothing new at all, because it's already happened before. It's just a case of making it official for everyone's clarity.

Also, @DarnWeight, please bear in mind the last sentence of my first post.

maltingsaudio · December 2018

Great news, my only request for the new forum is can we upload photos directly to it please as going through 3rd party hosting is a pain.

As to anyone coming back I can honestly say I seem to have missed all the shenanigans with most of the banned people probably because whilst I use the forum most days I tend only to look at stuff that interests me and very rarely glimpse behind closed doors.

I know modmins have have had it tough with some people from time to time and really appreciate their efforts.

i don’t think a small fee for the classifieds is at all unreasonable, and also paid advertising by forum members who are in business could be considered may be in its own separate thread?

DarnWeight · December 2018

digitalscream said:

DarnWeight said:

fftc said:

When do we find out Drews new name so I can block him straight away?
I've been on a few forums down the years and he was one of the most unpleasant people I have encountered. No amount of 'music biz knowledge' makes up for that.

Ditto. There shouldn't be another set of rules just to accommodate the odd member (and I mean that in every sense of the word) that we need to make "allowances" for.

Try reading my posts. I've already explained how this isn't another set of rules to accommodate anybody. In fact, it's nothing new at all, because it's already happened before. It's just a case of making it official for everyone's clarity.

Also, @DarnWeight, please bear in mind the last sentence of my first post.

Hey, look, I'm not trying to stoke anything. I'm just a user of the forum, and you guys provide us with an amazing resource. I'm very grateful for that. I'm totally happy to let things play out by the rules as they stand, and defer judgement in these matters to those with a closer relationship with all the parties concerned. From my perspective, as per the comment by @fftc, I'll just be blocking from the get-go.

digitalscream · December 2018

maltingsaudio said:

Great news, my only request for the new forum is can we upload photos directly to it please as going through 3rd party hosting is a pain.

That's the plan. The only reason it's going to be a paid feature is because we'll be using Amazon S3 for its extensible (and essentially infinite) storage, and to avoid broken images in threads we have to pretty much pay for that storage forever (or until I get a gigabit line to my house...).

thomasross20 · December 2018

guitars4you said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ meant to add comments about a caring side to FB and the community spirit it can offer

I know there have been other instances, but the obvious one that springs to mind is how FB helped to raise funds for @thomasross20 a while ago - It shows FB is more than just a forum

For which I will always be grateful... I'll never forget this, honestly.

Blaendulais · December 2018

guitarfishbay said:

Speaking of video content, Drew did a cool video for Thorpy’s Fallout Cloud recently.

https://youtu.be/GQwN-OUjzG4

Drew. He really is a nob! Welcome back

ICBM · December 2018

Sorry to see TTony leave, and happy to have Drew back. That's all really...

Handsome_Chris · December 2018

fftc said:

When do we find out Drews new name so I can block him straight away?
I've been on a few forums down the years and he was one of the most unpleasant people I have encountered. No amount of 'music biz knowledge' makes up for that.

Well you have lived a charmed life, my friend.

It's not actually the 'music biz knowledge' that makes him an asset, it is the music recording and production knowledge and experience that has proved to be of benefit to this community.

strtdv · December 2018

YouTube channel and new software sound great.
I had no personal dealings with Drew. I'd hope that he is back with the condition that if he behaves like "old Drew" he'd be banned again, otherwise it sets the example that you can ignore rule 1 if you're otherwise deemed to be "useful" to the forum.
On the other hand if he can avoid getting drawn in to arguments he could be a valuable contributer.

RedRabbit · December 2018

All very positive stuff as far as I'm concerned and I`m very pleased to see Drew will be returning.

I'd love to be able to offer to help out but I`m really not sure what help I could offer unless you need someone to keep the books straight.

mrkb · December 2018

RedRabbit said:

All very positive stuff as far as I'm concerned and I`m very pleased to see Drew will be returning.

I'd love to be able to offer to help out but I`m really not sure what help I could offer unless you need someone to keep the books straight.

R U a librarian?

AlexC · December 2018

This is the one and only guitar forum that I’ve been on so I cannot compare it to any other. However, in the couple of years I’ve been here I think this is a good place; informative, useful, interesting and often very funny. Differences of opinion never offend me in life if they’re kept civil - which, for the most part, they are here.
I think the YT channel idea is great and has much potential.
My only concern, as several others have voiced, is that isn’t running a forum a bit much for one person? Hats off to you @digitalscream - just don’t collapse from exhaustion and frustration!

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