Well that United Airlines thing has pissed me off...

Teetonetal

I often fly my own between zürich and london... I nearly always book an early flight and always volunteer to be bumped. It's been a good money earner over the years.

BRISTOL86

I really don't understand why they're allowed to oversell in the first place. 

ThePrettyDamned

BRISTOL86 said:

I really don't understand why they're allowed to oversell in the first place. 

It's largely the consumer's fault. 

People demand low flight prices but that results in losses. To help make it up, they overbook and hope people won't make it. If they do they pay out a bit - but I'd imagine the model accommodates that. 

goldtop

ThePrettyDamned said:

BRISTOL86 said:

I really don't understand why they're allowed to oversell in the first place. 

It's largely the consumer's fault. 

People demand low flight prices but that results in losses. To help make it up, they overbook and hope people won't make it. If they do they pay out a bit - but I'd imagine the model accommodates that. 

How can you place fault with the consumer?

Every ticketed service would have the same problem if that were true. But only airlines deliberately set up a system where overbooking is made easy (but not revealed to the customer at purchase, and only shown shortly before departure!). And they routinely try to sell more seats than they have available.

It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

stickyfiddle

boogieman said:

randella said:

boogieman said:

I don't understand the principle either. They've had the money upfront for the seat. If the airline is then having to fork out more money to compensate people that they're bumping, isn't that leaving them out of pocket? 

As far as I understand it, they're playing the percentages.  If they have to pay out £500 to keep one person sweet for every three people who don't turn up for their £200 flights, they're still £100 in the black.

It's gouging, pure and simple, but they're all at it.

I can see that just about works, although it seems a bit shortsighted. In the case the other day though presumably the staff weren't paying for the seats, so they've pissed passengers off AND lost money. 

On this flight yes, but on most flights they'll try and sell that extra £600 quids worth of seats AND not have to bump anyone, so they pocket the whole lot. If only one fligt in 10 results in bumpage then thats good business.

It will always happen unless the practice is banned, or the airlines with the lowest margins all go bust. 

Fretwired

When I used to fly to the States it was know as United Arseholes. The only time I flew with them we made it as far as the apron before a big thunderstorm hit .. after it went by we returned to the stand and we were left sitting round for 12 hours until they said there was a fault with the plane. Turned out it was to do with staff rotas. Got stranded in Washington for an extra night.

BRISTOL86

goldtop said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

BRISTOL86 said:

I really don't understand why they're allowed to oversell in the first place. 

It's largely the consumer's fault. 

People demand low flight prices but that results in losses. To help make it up, they overbook and hope people won't make it. If they do they pay out a bit - but I'd imagine the model accommodates that. 

How can you place fault with the consumer?

Every ticketed service would have the same problem if that were true. But only airlines deliberately set up a system where overbooking is made easy (but not revealed to the customer at purchase, and only shown shortly before departure!). And they routinely try to sell more seats than they have available.

It's a cash grab, pure and simple.

Absolutely. Imagine turning up to a concert or sporting event that accommodates 10,000 to be told 'sorry we sold 12,000 tickets sp we could make more money and hoped 2,000 of you wouldn't turn up'. 

HAL9000

Also, being a Sunday flight a lot of passengers are probably expected to turn up for work the next day. Imagine having to explain to your boss that you're late because you actually VOLUNTEERED to be bumped.

My understanding is that the four aircrew only showed up at the gate at the last moment after everybody else had been seated.

Moe_Zambeek

Overselling is partially because they sell a percentage of tickets as fully refundable if cancelled, usually to business types at higher fares, so they run the risk of a flight going from profit to loss almost at the point of departure. As they have very good info on behaviours, they have a good idea of how many folks won't show and it seems rare anyone heard about it. In this case though so much has gone wrong it's painful.

Fretwired

:-)

goldtop

Lest we pluckers forget, it's not just your face that's at risk with United:

snakemanStoo

https://pics.onsizzle.com/southwest-we-beat-our-competitors-not-you-southwest-airlines-new-18733019.png

boogieman

HAL9000 said:

Also, being a Sunday flight a lot of passengers are probably expected to turn up for work the next day. Imagine having to explain to your boss that you're late because you actually VOLUNTEERED to be bumped.

My understanding is that the four aircrew only showed up at the gate at the last moment after everybody else had been seated.

In which case the off duty crew should have been made to get a later flight; it wasn't the passengers' fault. Apparently the on duty crew asked for volunteers to get off, then when they only got two they selected other people at random. WTF? I bet the Chinese guy's lawyers have a field day with these scumbags, on all sorts of layers. 

ICBM

boogieman said:

I bet the Chinese guy's lawyers have a field day with these scumbags, on all sorts of layers. 

According to a post on Airliners.net the doctor has now hired one of the best personal injury and aviation-related lawyers in Chicago, where he is still in hospital. I expect this is going to cost the airline millions and may well change the rules for the industry too... rightly so.

Emp_Fab

The problem was that he didn't respect their authoritah...  The yanks love strutting it with a sidearm or a nightstick and flexing their authoritah.  If you don't respect it, you're gonna get a beating.  The police and security companies must be magnets for the unhinged and tiny-penised. 

holnrew

VimFuego

Emp_Fab said:

The problem was that he didn't respect their authoritah...  The yanks love strutting it with a sidearm or a nightstick and flexing their authoritah.  If you don't respect it, you're gonna get a beating.  The police and security companies must be magnets for the unhinged and tiny-penised. 

application in the post is it?

EDIT: not that I'm saying you have a tiny penis.

Babones

Typical CEO megalomaniac initial response, until someone had a word in his ear. I wonder if he would like to be filmed being dragged out of his home or office, in front of his own family (workers would likely cheer thinking about it) and have that stuck on the internet.

Bidley

benmurray85 said:

Serious question. What I don't understand is why was it that guy in particular? Out of a plane full of people, assuming they won't remove anyone travelling in a group so that weens all those out. So maybe at the very least a third of the commuters would have been solo travellers? Why just that one guy? 

From what I've read, UA offered 3 passengers $200 and a hotel stay for 3/4 passengers to get off the plane. Nobody took them up on it, so they increased it to $500. Again, no takers. So they got a computer to pick 3/4 random names and forcibly remove them (presumably with the promise of $500 and a hotel stay).

Garthy

It wasn't cash though, just vouchers that were as good as worthless due to the way they could be redeemed.