The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

PolarityMan

No but you're not challenging that they are being prevented from reducing headcount through automation so I think I've fulfilled your original request.

VimFuego

only in your own imagination I'm afraid. You stated that the employer should have the right to reduce workforce, I said they already have that right, you haven't given any evidence to the contrary. Please ask if you still need help.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

I see the BBC gave an five minute interview on TV with a nurse who turned out to be an activist for Jeremy Corbyn - the editor knew this but didn't think it was bias.

Because one interview doesn't constitute bias. If all they did was interview nurses who liked bearded men in vests, then it would be bias. The MRC/Birkbeck research was pretty unanimous in saying that the media as a whole, including the BBC, were anti-Corbyn. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

I see the BBC gave an five minute interview on TV with a nurse who turned out to be an activist for Jeremy Corbyn - the editor knew this but didn't think it was bias.

Because one interview doesn't constitute bias. If all they did was interview nurses who liked bearded men in vests, then it would be bias. The MRC/Birkbeck research was pretty unanimous in saying that the media as a whole, including the BBC, were anti-Corbyn. 

I don't think the BBC is biased - I think some in the News department are complacent and lazy. If anything they are pro-Tory. The Nurse is an activist for Jermery Corbyn - the editor knew this and let her speak without highlighting the fact which shows bias. I'd moan about it if it were the other way round with a Tory spouting Mayisms. I won't be voting in the election as it's a waste of time where I live, but I'll feel free to moan about the naff London-centric media with their awful interviews which always seem to start with "I need to get a sense of ..." and the likes of May were her bland advertising speak. In fairness to Corbyn he at least has something concrete to say although I have no idea how he'll fund most of his policies.

PolarityMan

VimFuego said:

only in your own imagination I'm afraid. You stated that the employer should have the right to reduce workforce, I said they already have that right, you haven't given any evidence to the contrary. Please ask if you still need help.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/or?s=t

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_disjunction

PolarityMan

VimFuego said:

only in your own imagination I'm afraid. You stated that the employer should have the right to reduce workforce, I said they already have that right, you haven't given any evidence to the contrary. Please ask if you still need help.

And just to put it to bed:

https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/your-employment-rights-during-industrial-action

Dismissal for industrial action

You can’t be dismissed for industrial action if:

• it’s called as a result of a properly organised ballot
• it’s about a trade dispute between workers and their employer (eg about your terms and conditions)
• a detailed notice about the industrial action (which is legally required) has been given to the employer at least 7 days before it begins

You can claim unfair dismissal at an employment tribunal if you’re dismissed for taking industrial action at any time within the 12 weeks after the action began.

After 12 weeks, you can be dismissed if you take industrial action and your employer has tried to settle the dispute. For example, your employer may bring in advisers from Acas to help find a solution.

PolarityMan

VimFuego said:

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

people have the right to withdraw their labour if the pay conditions offered them are not suitable, when pay conditions are imposed by a monopoly upon a collective that collective have the right to collectively withdraw their labour. I suggest if it is a major inconvienience to you that you find a job where you will not be effected by it.

Well yes but the companies should also have the right to terminate employment for breach of contract or to replace staff with computers.

they already do, this is why unions were formed to give individuals strength to defend themselves from those who hold the power. Unless you can show me where employers no longer have this right. I await with baited breath.

The london underground

can you link to where they can no longer dismiss staff?

Apparently I can...I should have said I didn't want to.

VimFuego

so, employers do have the right to dismiss then, glad you cleared that up. see, it wasn't hard was it

PolarityMan

VimFuego said:

so, employers do have the right to dismiss then, glad you cleared that up. see, it wasn't hard was it

Are you deliberately being an asshole or just hard of thinking?

holnrew

Fretwired said: we

DarnWeight said:

Sorry to have sidelined an Election thread into a discussion about trade unions, but there was a genuine point being debated a few pages back which got lost a little along the way.  Apologies.

Back on track...Did anyone see Question Time last night?  I was surprised to see the vast majority of audience members were openly skeptical (or outright dismissive) of the Conservative claims that this election was called to "unite a divided Parliament" and that it was "in the best interests of the country".  It was in Oxford, and I'm not sure what flavour of politics dominates there, but regardless of that, it was encouraging to see a good cross-section of people in the audience calling this out as the blatant party political move that it clearly is.

I stopped watching QT as the audience tends to be left-leaning so you get the usual claptrap. The BBC has admitted it is hard to get Tory voters but also states that it tries for a balance of all parties which means that most audiences are left leaning.  I also hate the fact the nobody ever answers a question. Dimbleby is next to useless and spends more time trying to make himself look clever at the expense of someone else.

I did like when Jacob Rees Mogg nailed the bastard though ...

I find it very much depends on where it is that week. The audience in Hartlepool was pretty horrific

VimFuego

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

so, employers do have the right to dismiss then, glad you cleared that up. see, it wasn't hard was it

Are you deliberately being an asshole or just hard of thinking?

lol, it clearly states in the link you posted that employers have the right to terminate contracts. But it pleases me no end that I am also getting under your skin.

It was you who said they didn't then posted evidence that they do. This amuses me no end.

Fretwired

holnrew said:

I find it very much depends on where it is that week. The audience in Hartlepool was pretty horrific

I agree with that .. I think the show needs a new host who is much tougher on the politicians. They never answer a straight question and simply bandy dodgy stats about. It would also be worth having the odd special - for example the health minister, the shadow health minister and relevant spokespersons from the Lib Dems, Greens, SNP etc facing an audience of NHS employees. It might be a bit like Christians versus lions but we might learn something and it could be great entertainment as the politicians couldn't get away with their usual bullshit.

VimFuego

sadly, we live in an age where a prime requisite of a politican is the abiltity to smoothly not answer a question (must be a nightmare going out to dinner with one "are you ready to order" etc), and the media laud them for it. May is praised for her over rehearsed answers at PMQ's, despite all she really does is avoid the question and score cheap points.

PolarityMan

VimFuego said:

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

so, employers do have the right to dismiss then, glad you cleared that up. see, it wasn't hard was it

Are you deliberately being an asshole or just hard of thinking?

lol, it clearly states in the link you posted that employers have the right to terminate contracts. But it pleases me no end that I am also getting under your skin.

It was you who said they didn't then posted evidence that they do. This amuses me no end.

It was clear from the context but the meaning was that employers should have the write to dismiss employees who take part industrial action for breach of contract. The link I posted states that employers do not have this right.

Would you like to quibble on your interpretation of my grammar next or actually offer an opinion on the subject? 

PolarityMan

I think there is value in keeping the discussion public thanks.

VimFuego

• VimFuego 5:02PM

  lol. I am loving trolling you. please keep it up, I enjoy picking on the disadvantaged
• VimFuego 5:03PM

  also loving that I've reduced you to insults, I always know I've won when they start insults, brilliant

holnrew

Fretwired said:

holnrew said:

I find it very much depends on where it is that week. The audience in Hartlepool was pretty horrific

I agree with that .. I think the show needs a new host who is much tougher on the politicians. They never answer a straight question and simply bandy dodgy stats about. It would also be worth having the odd special - for example the health minister, the shadow health minister and relevant spokespersons from the Lib Dems, Greens, SNP etc facing an audience of NHS employees. It might be a bit like Christians versus lions but we might learn something and it could be great entertainment as the politicians couldn't get away with their usual bullshit.

Iirc Paxo has said he'd like to do it

VimFuego

PolarityMan said:

I think there is value in keeping the discussion public thanks.

VimFuego

• VimFuego 5:02PM

  lol. I am loving trolling you. please keep it up, I enjoy picking on the disadvantaged
• VimFuego 5:03PM

  also loving that I've reduced you to insults, I always know I've won when they start insults, brilliant

.

VimFuego

.

PolarityMan

VimFuego

• VimFuego 5:48PM

  lol that is priceless, well done

VimFuego

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

so, employers do have the right to dismiss then, glad you cleared that up. see, it wasn't hard was it

Are you deliberately being an asshole or just hard of thinking?

lol, it clearly states in the link you posted that employers have the right to terminate contracts. But it pleases me no end that I am also getting under your skin.

It was you who said they didn't then posted evidence that they do. This amuses me no end.

It was clear from the context but the meaning was that employers should have the write to dismiss employees who take part industrial action for breach of contract. The link I posted states that employers do not have this right.

Would you like to quibble on your interpretation of my grammar next or actually offer an opinion on the subject? 

it clearly says they do, so long as certain conditions are met (or are not met by the union).