The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

DarnWeight

Sorry to have sidelined an Election thread into a discussion about trade unions, but there was a genuine point being debated a few pages back which got lost a little along the way.  Apologies.

Back on track...Did anyone see Question Time last night?  I was surprised to see the vast majority of audience members were openly skeptical (or outright dismissive) of the Conservative claims that this election was called to "unite a divided Parliament" and that it was "in the best interests of the country".  It was in Oxford, and I'm not sure what flavour of politics dominates there, but regardless of that, it was encouraging to see a good cross-section of people in the audience calling this out as the blatant party political move that it clearly is.

ThePrettyDamned

Sporky said:

VimFuego said:

if they fuck up people die

Which one could argue also applies to tube and train drivers.

I am not, though, disputing that nurses ought to be better paid.

Indeed. 

Jalapeno

ThePrettyDamned said:

I feel similarly. 

To get up the payscale you head into management. So less patient contact, but you have to handle the constant stream of negative press. 

Example - the 4 year wait for discharge discussed as a failure. It's not - it's proof that the NHS won't just turf people out unless they have somewhere to go. Obviously no one wanted to look after the patient and the spaces in homes that were equipped to handle a patient like that were all taken. 

I call bullshit on that ! 

My experience of NHS end-of-life care for my mother was that the shit-for-brains EOL-Care Coordinator was crap at her job, not only that, after 3 weeks of ineffective dicking about was reassigned to ward duty due to some end of year budget nonsense - of course nobody thought to communicate this to the ward or family.  I did the research, and I found an end-of-life care home with a bed in only a couple of days. The NHS was the problem here - and it had nothing to do with funding - complete incompetence, poor internal communication between ward/hospital EOL Care admin/NHS Commuity Care admin and uncaring mis-management.  As an aside, my Mum eventually died on a mixed clinical ward years after they'd supposedly been phased out. The ward nurses were good, though there weren't enough, some very caring/some professionally remote; the night-Sister on duty when my Mum died was superb.

Heartfeltdawn

DarnWeight said:

Sorry to have sidelined an Election thread into a discussion about trade unions, but there was a genuine point being debated a few pages back which got lost a little along the way.  Apologies.

Back on track...Did anyone see Question Time last night?  I was surprised to see the vast majority of audience members were openly skeptical (or outright dismissive) of the Conservative claims that this election was called to "unite a divided Parliament" and that it was "in the best interests of the country".  It was in Oxford, and I'm not sure what flavour of politics dominates there, but regardless of that, it was encouraging to see a good cross-section of people in the audience calling this out as the blatant party political move that it clearly is.

Of the six constituencies in Oxfordshire, five are Conservative with a sole Labour member in Oxford East. Councilwise it's Conservative or no overall control. As you'd expect, there is quite a mixture of political opinion in Oxford, a good smattering of Liberal and Labour interests and the Greens have a couple of council seats. Oxfordshire was the only county as a whole to vote to Remain in the EU so it's fair to say it's a liberal Conservative area right now and one that obviously held Cameron as MP of Witney. 

Jalapeno

DarnWeight said:

Sorry to have sidelined an Election thread into a discussion about trade unions, but there was a genuine point being debated a few pages back which got lost a little along the way.  Apologies.

Back on track...Did anyone see Question Time last night?  I was surprised to see the vast majority of audience members were openly skeptical (or outright dismissive) of the Conservative claims that this election was called to "unite a divided Parliament" and that it was "in the best interests of the country".  It was in Oxford, and I'm not sure what flavour of politics dominates there, but regardless of that, it was encouraging to see a good cross-section of people in the audience calling this out as the blatant party political move that it clearly is.

I watched it too, had a very different view, I thought that the tribal boos & clapping were evenly spread, and the vast majority didn't partake at all. Only person talking sense all night was as usual the only non-career politician, the non-partisan peer lady.

Heartfeltdawn

Jalapeno said:

I watched it too, had a very different view, I thought that the tribal boos & clapping were evenly spread, and the vast majority didn't partake at all. Only person talking sense all night was as usual the only non-career politician, the non-partisan peer lady.

The only reason she is non-affiliated right now is because she got a new job that requires her to have no official party links. Describing her as non-partisan is stretching things. It's very different to being a crossbencher. 

Fretwired

Emp_Fab said:

Just be grateful we're not living in Africa.  We'd all be on 20p a year whilst Teresa May would be in a general's uniform with a thousand medals, have her own personal 747 with gold taps and declare herself President for Life.

Highly unlikely. How many poor African nations are run by women? Zero. Women's rights are virtually non-existent.

More likely Big Bad General Boris Mugwump would be in charge.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Highly unlikely. How many poor African nations are run by women? Zero. Women's rights are virtually non-existent.

More likely Big Bad General Boris Mugwump would be in charge.

I'd make him black up though. If you're going to run a country badly, it's best to insult them at the same time. 

Fretwired

DarnWeight said:

Sorry to have sidelined an Election thread into a discussion about trade unions, but there was a genuine point being debated a few pages back which got lost a little along the way.  Apologies.

Back on track...Did anyone see Question Time last night?  I was surprised to see the vast majority of audience members were openly skeptical (or outright dismissive) of the Conservative claims that this election was called to "unite a divided Parliament" and that it was "in the best interests of the country".  It was in Oxford, and I'm not sure what flavour of politics dominates there, but regardless of that, it was encouraging to see a good cross-section of people in the audience calling this out as the blatant party political move that it clearly is.

I stopped watching QT as the audience tends to be left-leaning so you get the usual claptrap. The BBC has admitted it is hard to get Tory voters but also states that it tries for a balance of all parties which means that most audiences are left leaning.  I also hate the fact the nobody ever answers a question. Dimbleby is next to useless and spends more time trying to make himself look clever at the expense of someone else.

I did like when Jacob Rees Mogg nailed the bastard though ...

ICBM

Fretwired said:

How many poor African nations are run by women? Zero.

Depends on who you think really runs Zimbabwe these days...

Heartfeltdawn

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

How many poor African nations are run by women? Zero.

Depends on who you think really runs Zimbabwe these days...

Is it Lulu?

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

How many poor African nations are run by women? Zero.

Depends on who you think really runs Zimbabwe these days...

Zimbabwe's run by someone .. are you sure ... ;-)

I have a funny true story about Mr M. but if I share it here I will die.

ThePrettyDamned

Fretwired said:

DarnWeight said:

Sorry to have sidelined an Election thread into a discussion about trade unions, but there was a genuine point being debated a few pages back which got lost a little along the way.  Apologies.

Back on track...Did anyone see Question Time last night?  I was surprised to see the vast majority of audience members were openly skeptical (or outright dismissive) of the Conservative claims that this election was called to "unite a divided Parliament" and that it was "in the best interests of the country".  It was in Oxford, and I'm not sure what flavour of politics dominates there, but regardless of that, it was encouraging to see a good cross-section of people in the audience calling this out as the blatant party political move that it clearly is.

I stopped watching QT as the audience tends to be left-leaning so you get the usual claptrap. The BBC has admitted it is hard to get Tory voters but also states that it tries for a balance of all parties which means that most audiences are left leaning.  I also hate the fact the nobody ever answers a question. Dimbleby is next to useless and spends more time trying to make himself look clever at the expense of someone else.

I did like when Jacob Rees Mogg nailed the bastard though ...

I stopped listening to politicians because they never answer anything. Ever. 

"what did you have for breakfast this morning Theresa? "

"well, I'm glad you bought that up, breakfast is so important and thanks to my leadership it is available to any who need it, there really is no better time for a meal than breakfast" 

"yes, but-"

"I'll take no more questions, you filthy pleb". 

That's pretty much all I hear during question time tbh. 

DarnWeight

It's only really worth watching Question Time to see what the audience is contributing nowadays, I'd agree...a rough barometer of "public opinion".  Saying that, the audience composition seems to vary wildly (hence my query about Oxford earlier), and I'd guess the kind of person who'd apply to be there would be the kind of person who'd have strong political opinions anyway.  Either way, it did seem to me this week, that both left- and right-leaning types were pretty united in thinking the reasons given by the Government for calling the election are entirely bogus.

PolarityMan

VimFuego said:

people have the right to withdraw their labour if the pay conditions offered them are not suitable, when pay conditions are imposed by a monopoly upon a collective that collective have the right to collectively withdraw their labour. I suggest if it is a major inconvienience to you that you find a job where you will not be effected by it.

Well yes but the companies should also have the right to terminate employment for breach of contract or to replace staff with computers.

Fretwired

DarnWeight said:

It's only really worth watching Question Time to see what the audience is contributing nowadays, I'd agree...a rough barometer of "public opinion".  Saying that, the audience composition seems to vary wildly (hence my query about Oxford earlier), and I'd guess the kind of person who'd apply to be there would be the kind of person who'd have strong political opinions anyway.  Either way, it did seem to me this week, that both left- and right-leaning types were pretty united in thinking the reasons given by the Government for calling the election are entirely bogus.

I guess being Oxford you'd get a lot of Labour, Lib Dem and Greens in the audience - as far as the election goes most Tories I know are over the moon as they think they'll win big. Those Labour supporters who don't like Corbyn think it's a great chance to kick him and get rid of him and the few Lib Dems I know think it's a great opportunity for them to bounce back, so I think a lot of comment on QT would be the usual Tory bashing as if they're sitting in the audience they care about politics..

I see the BBC gave an five minute interview on TV with a nurse who turned out to be an activist for Jeremy Corbyn - the editor knew this but didn't think it was bias.

ThePrettyDamned

Fretwired said:

DarnWeight said:

It's only really worth watching Question Time to see what the audience is contributing nowadays, I'd agree...a rough barometer of "public opinion".  Saying that, the audience composition seems to vary wildly (hence my query about Oxford earlier), and I'd guess the kind of person who'd apply to be there would be the kind of person who'd have strong political opinions anyway.  Either way, it did seem to me this week, that both left- and right-leaning types were pretty united in thinking the reasons given by the Government for calling the election are entirely bogus.

I guess being Oxford you'd get a lot of Labour, Lib Dem and Greens in the audience - as far as the election goes most Tories I know are over the moon as they think they'll win big. Those Labour supporters who don't like Corbyn think it's a great chance to kick him and get rid of him and the few Lib Dems I know think it's a great opportunity for them to bounce back, so I think a lot of comment on QT would be the usual Tory bashing as if they're sitting in the audience they care about politics..

I see the BBC gave an five minute interview on TV with a nurse who turned out to be an activist for Jeremy Corbyn - the editor knew this but didn't think it was bias.

That's such bullshit. BBC, you can do better. 

It's really easy to do better actually - just don't be so shit. 

VimFuego

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

people have the right to withdraw their labour if the pay conditions offered them are not suitable, when pay conditions are imposed by a monopoly upon a collective that collective have the right to collectively withdraw their labour. I suggest if it is a major inconvienience to you that you find a job where you will not be effected by it.

Well yes but the companies should also have the right to terminate employment for breach of contract or to replace staff with computers.

they already do, this is why unions were formed to give individuals strength to defend themselves from those who hold the power. Unless you can show me where employers no longer have this right. I await with baited breath.

PolarityMan

VimFuego said:

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

people have the right to withdraw their labour if the pay conditions offered them are not suitable, when pay conditions are imposed by a monopoly upon a collective that collective have the right to collectively withdraw their labour. I suggest if it is a major inconvienience to you that you find a job where you will not be effected by it.

Well yes but the companies should also have the right to terminate employment for breach of contract or to replace staff with computers.

they already do, this is why unions were formed to give individuals strength to defend themselves from those who hold the power. Unless you can show me where employers no longer have this right. I await with baited breath.

The london underground

VimFuego

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

PolarityMan said:

VimFuego said:

people have the right to withdraw their labour if the pay conditions offered them are not suitable, when pay conditions are imposed by a monopoly upon a collective that collective have the right to collectively withdraw their labour. I suggest if it is a major inconvienience to you that you find a job where you will not be effected by it.

Well yes but the companies should also have the right to terminate employment for breach of contract or to replace staff with computers.

they already do, this is why unions were formed to give individuals strength to defend themselves from those who hold the power. Unless you can show me where employers no longer have this right. I await with baited breath.

The london underground

can you link to where they can no longer dismiss staff?