Aeropress

RaymondLin

The biggest problem I have with Nespresso or any of these pods machines are that they are designed for a specific taste and flavour.  I get bored far too easily and no matter how good it is, I like a change (why I don't really care for what beans I buy, I just alternate from bag to bag).  I know they make different flavours pods, however the number is still limited vs the unlimited flavours in beans.  Even the same estate can produce beans different tasting between harvest and I can also create my own blend easily enough.

The other things is the amount of waste generated, so much packaging.

Then it is also more expensive.

Even if you like the taste, think it is good value and love the convenience, you are at the mercy of the manufacturer continuing making the flavour that you love.

I think they are fine in a hotel room for a couple of days, I personally can’t live with it daily at home.  

FreddieVanHalen

So if one was to step up from a moka pot to a basic but ok espresso machine, what’s a good choice or what to look for?

EricTheWeary

RaymondLin said:

The biggest problem I have with Nespresso or any of these pods machines are that they are designed for a specific taste and flavour.  I get bored far too easily and no matter how good it is, I like a change (why I don't really care for what beans I buy, I just alternate from bag to bag).  I know they make different flavours pods, however the number is still limited vs the unlimited flavours in beans.  Even the same estate can produce beans different tasting between harvest and I can also create my own blend easily enough.

The other things is the amount of waste generated, so much packaging.

Then it is also more expensive.

Even if you like the taste, think it is good value and love the convenience, you are at the mercy of the manufacturer continuing making the flavour that you love.

I think they are fine in a hotel room for a couple of days, I personally can’t live with it daily at home.  


I'm by no means a connoisseur in these things but I've never tasted a pod that didn't taste like strong instant coffee. Which isn't necessarily a bad taste but you might as well just make a cup of strong instant coffee. 

RaymondLin

FreddieVanHalen said:

So if one was to step up from a moka pot to a basic but ok espresso machine, what’s a good choice or what to look for?

Gaggia Classic.

You have to spend about double to get something noticeably better.   The main thing the expensive machines does better is having a dual boiler so you can steam and brew at the same time.  Whereas the Gaggia is single boiler so if you can imagine if you steam, thus boiler is heating water to 100c, and then you go and brew, it has to drop the temp (you flush the system), in order to get best coffee.  An expensive machine will have dual boiler so you can do both.  Also a bigger boiler so it can do more without waiting for it to heat up the next cup of water.

Those are the main part, of course, build quality, more dials, etc also applies.

But do not forget a Burr grinder too, get an electric one if you want less faff.  Manual grinder is fun for the first couple of times but who wants to do that first thing in the morning.

Roland

RaymondLin said:

Nespresso ... amount of waste generated, so much packaging.

There is a whole branch of product management aimed at selling the initial product cheaply, and milking the customer through usage of related consumables. On this basis alone, and regardless of the taste, I won’t use Nespresso or similar products.

RaymondLin

Roland said:

RaymondLin said:

Nespresso ... amount of waste generated, so much packaging.

There is a whole branch of product management aimed at selling the initial product cheaply, and milking the customer through usage of related consumables. On this basis alone, and regardless of the taste, I won’t use Nespresso or similar products.

It's pretty much a subscription model.  They rely on you loving the convenience, and happy with the taste.

In isolation I don’t think they are bad coffee, they are perfectly drinkable, I can even stand instant.  However I find them lacking in character, 1 note in flavour with no complexity.  With a good cup of coffee I can drink it without sugar as it is not bitter, it has actual character and flavour to it.  With instant or these pre-blend, pre-sealed pods, I find myself putting in sugar in them.  Not because they are necessarily bad, because I find them boring.

crunchman

RaymondLin said:

FreddieVanHalen said:

So if one was to step up from a moka pot to a basic but ok espresso machine, what’s a good choice or what to look for?

Gaggia Classic.

You have to spend about double to get something noticeably better.   The main thing the expensive machines does better is having a dual boiler so you can steam and brew at the same time.  Whereas the Gaggia is single boiler so if you can imagine if you steam, thus boiler is heating water to 100c, and then you go and brew, it has to drop the temp (you flush the system), in order to get best coffee.  An expensive machine will have dual boiler so you can do both.  Also a bigger boiler so it can do more without waiting for it to heat up the next cup of water.

Those are the main part, of course, build quality, more dials, etc also applies.

But do not forget a Burr grinder too, get an electric one if you want less faff.  Manual grinder is fun for the first couple of times but who wants to do that first thing in the morning.

In a hard water area like mine, I wouldn't want to keep that descaled.  Monstrous amount of faffing around.  That's the other big advantage of the Aeropress.

RaymondLin

crunchman said:

RaymondLin said:

FreddieVanHalen said:

So if one was to step up from a moka pot to a basic but ok espresso machine, what’s a good choice or what to look for?

Gaggia Classic.

You have to spend about double to get something noticeably better.   The main thing the expensive machines does better is having a dual boiler so you can steam and brew at the same time.  Whereas the Gaggia is single boiler so if you can imagine if you steam, thus boiler is heating water to 100c, and then you go and brew, it has to drop the temp (you flush the system), in order to get best coffee.  An expensive machine will have dual boiler so you can do both.  Also a bigger boiler so it can do more without waiting for it to heat up the next cup of water.

Those are the main part, of course, build quality, more dials, etc also applies.

But do not forget a Burr grinder too, get an electric one if you want less faff.  Manual grinder is fun for the first couple of times but who wants to do that first thing in the morning.

In a hard water area like mine, I wouldn't want to keep that descaled.  Monstrous amount of faffing around.  That's the other big advantage of the Aeropress.

Ah yes, I am lucky that I don't.

Had my machine for over 10 years now and I think I descaled it twice, ever, not out of necessity, but because I was doing a deep clean with all the parts, changing seals and did it anyway.

crunchman

RaymondLin said:

crunchman said:

RaymondLin said:

FreddieVanHalen said:

So if one was to step up from a moka pot to a basic but ok espresso machine, what’s a good choice or what to look for?

Gaggia Classic.

You have to spend about double to get something noticeably better.   The main thing the expensive machines does better is having a dual boiler so you can steam and brew at the same time.  Whereas the Gaggia is single boiler so if you can imagine if you steam, thus boiler is heating water to 100c, and then you go and brew, it has to drop the temp (you flush the system), in order to get best coffee.  An expensive machine will have dual boiler so you can do both.  Also a bigger boiler so it can do more without waiting for it to heat up the next cup of water.

Those are the main part, of course, build quality, more dials, etc also applies.

But do not forget a Burr grinder too, get an electric one if you want less faff.  Manual grinder is fun for the first couple of times but who wants to do that first thing in the morning.

In a hard water area like mine, I wouldn't want to keep that descaled.  Monstrous amount of faffing around.  That's the other big advantage of the Aeropress.

Ah yes, I am lucky that I don't.

Had my machine for over 10 years now and I think I descaled it twice, ever, not out of necessity, but because I was doing a deep clean with all the parts, changing seals and did it anyway.

I've had Tassimo and Dolce Gusto machines that people got me as presents.  Both of them scaled up within a few months.  You can descale them, but I prefer the coffee that I get from the Aeropress anyway, and it's a lot less hassle.

I did try the reusable pods in the Dolce Gusto machine.  They were ok, but they were more fiddling around than the Aeropress, and they didn't last that long - probably only 30 or 40 cups.

joneve

Silly question, but the Aeropress only makes single cups at a time, right? So if the inlaws are staying, I'd have to repeat the process multiple times to get coffee for everyone? 

RaymondLin

joneve said:

Silly question, but the Aeropress only makes single cups at a time, right? So if the inlaws are staying, I'd have to repeat the process multiple times to get coffee for everyone? 

Yes, a new filter for each person ideally.  I mean you can get away with 2 small cups in one but typically it is a 1 cup job.

joneve

RaymondLin said:

joneve said:

Silly question, but the Aeropress only makes single cups at a time, right? So if the inlaws are staying, I'd have to repeat the process multiple times to get coffee for everyone? 

Yes, a new filter for each person ideally.  I mean you can get away with 2 small cups in one but typically it is a 1 cup job.

Nice one, thanks. I can't abide the cafetière we have as it's such a piss to clean. So I might invest in one of these instead (for the rare occasion I have coffee. 

RaymondLin

joneve said:

RaymondLin said:

joneve said:

Silly question, but the Aeropress only makes single cups at a time, right? So if the inlaws are staying, I'd have to repeat the process multiple times to get coffee for everyone? 

Yes, a new filter for each person ideally.  I mean you can get away with 2 small cups in one but typically it is a 1 cup job.

Nice one, thanks. I can't abide the cafetière we have as it's such a piss to clean. So I might invest in one of these instead (for the rare occasion I have coffee. 

A Chemex would be the way to get coffee for everyone with a filter method.

MattBanshee

FreddieVanHalen said:

So if one was to step up from a moka pot to a basic but ok espresso machine, what’s a good choice or what to look for?

I have a Delonghi Scultura. About £150 new but regular Amazon warehouse bargains (I think I paid about £60 once all was said and done). Be wary of some of the cheaper generic brand of espresso machines, often the pressure is a lot lower.

ewal

And now we're talking coffee making more generally, any decent bang for buck coffee recommendations, either ground or beans?

ewal

PS: I like strong coffee full of flavour but medium roast.

Grunfeld

ThePrettyDamned said:

Grunfeld said:

...My theory is that the crap coffee is not absorbing water as well as the good coffee and this somehow affects the resistance you meet as you plunge the Aeropress and this in turn affects taste.

I use two paper filters each brew so I can generate loads of pressure. I feel this is where the flavour comes from.

Am I correct?  Does anyone with a bigger brain know the answer?

A bit off. The grind determines the pressure, but pressure has nothing to do with the brew.
coarse = easy plunge but more importantly less extracted in 3 minutes. Try it for 10. 
Fine = harder plunger and more extracted in the time vs coarse. Note more extraction is not always good.

@ThePrettyDamned -- thank you.  So what might be happening when I'm using the same grind on different beans and yet some beans offer little resistance to the plunger (and the coffee tastes rubbish), and other beans offer significantly more resistance to the plunger and taste great?

TTBZ

RaymondLin said:

The other things is the amount of waste generated, so much packaging.

Then it is also more expensive.

This is why I want to switch to something else from the dolce gusto! Lots of plastic that can't be recycled. I also don't think it's amazing coffee, it's ok and better than instant but nothing special. I like filter coffee so might give aeropress a whirl.

ThePrettyDamned

Grunfeld said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Grunfeld said:

...My theory is that the crap coffee is not absorbing water as well as the good coffee and this somehow affects the resistance you meet as you plunge the Aeropress and this in turn affects taste.

I use two paper filters each brew so I can generate loads of pressure. I feel this is where the flavour comes from.

Am I correct?  Does anyone with a bigger brain know the answer?

A bit off. The grind determines the pressure, but pressure has nothing to do with the brew.
coarse = easy plunge but more importantly less extracted in 3 minutes. Try it for 10. 
Fine = harder plunger and more extracted in the time vs coarse. Note more extraction is not always good.

@ThePrettyDamned -- thank you.  So what might be happening when I'm using the same grind on different beans and yet some beans offer little resistance to the plunger (and the coffee tastes rubbish), and other beans offer significantly more resistance to the plunger and taste great?

Some beans are more oily (Italian blends, darker roasts, coffee marketed as "stronger" (total bollocks, it's just burnt)). 

Also, some beans grind very consistently (typically a medium roast Brazil) and others are very messy, breaking into lots of different sizes (such as a very light roast Ethiopian, or the worst in the world - monsoon malabar). 

Monsooned malabar is delicious if you get it right, but it's nightmarish to grind for espresso. I like it as a moka pot, but it's messy. 

Laslty, taste is subjective. I aim for a good extraction with coffee - some coffees, like fine wines, are not necessarily my favourite but are interesting, offering peachy, tea flavours, or really distinct cherries, and in one particularly interesting coffee, when brewed pour over and timed right, it had a summer fruits-esque flavour. 

But if you want a good, chocolatey coffee that balances with milk, or makes a decent black coffee, I can 100 percent recommend Rave fudge blend. It's a medium blend that has massive fudgey flavour when made in a moka pot. 

Best aeropress coffee, for me, is light roasts - these are fruitier. If brewed in a moka pot, these flavours are lost to the bitterness - an aeropress or French press really let's those flavours sing. 

In short... Without a scientific analysis of extraction, there are plenty of reasons why some coffees taste good and others bad! Consistency is king - if you want to get good, I recommend scales (for coffee and water), a timer and a high tolerance to caffeine  

ThePrettyDamned

And yes, I know I'm snobby. I've actually fallen away from this, instead going for moka pots of good quality coffee from a local shop that sources beans from York. They're not the finest in the world, but it makes a wonderful, sweet coffee that works well with milk at breakfast.