should we give "our guys" a platform

Evilmags

As most people know I'm a big fan of small builders and small businesses. I think it would be cool as fuck, especially given the predominance of big brands in ye industry if we allowed the pros we have here to showcase their work. Guys like Weasel, Van Hayden and Wez give us all a wealth of encouragement, which I really appreciate and I love their posts. I also enjoy watching the creations of peeps like Sporky and TTony come to life in full technicolour. I don't even see it as advertising gives the hold the big boys have on the industry. I feel that encouraging individuality, while at the same time helping these guys to make a living is a cool thing to do. It would also provide a balance against the constant brand pushing of musicradar and their 5 star reviews for their advertisers. As long as they stay as helpful as they are and don't go all corporate on us I think it would be a really cool thing to do.

monquixote

We've got a very relaxed attitude towards small builders sharing what they are doing provided that it is put forward in the context of providing some genuinely interesting or useful content rather than just a sales pitch. 

Did you have anything in mind over and above not stamping on people mentioning stuff they make in threads?

TTony

Fully agree with the concept.

I did start a discussion way back (as long ago as when we started this place!) here, for custom/small builders, but it's faded away a little - it's on page 3 of the guitars section now

 

Apart from your reasoning (fully supported by me) of giving the smaller builders some profile here, I also thought it would help our own profile.  There's no way that we're going to be swapping tweets & FB likes and website links with Gibson or Yamaha or PRS or (et al), but we may well be able to build those sorts of links - and hence help boost the profile of theFB - with the smaller UK builders.

I'd differentiate between the hobby builders (Sporky, myself, Jooky, etc) and the commercial builders - this initiative would be for the commercial builders (ie not purely parts-assemblers) who are UK-based.

We might also be able to do some journo-discussions, such as following the build of a guitar through the whole process, tours of workshops, perhaps a regular "building tip of the week" discussion, etc ...

JookyChap

I think it's a great idea - maybe as a magazine format - Featured Builder, day in the life, something more interesting, types of thing & quite agree it should be aimed at the chaps who are trying to make a living at this sort of thing.

A TFB house guitar magazine would be lovely and let's face it not hard to do on-line these days - I can see "ICBM's Corner" going down a storm

Evilmags

Maybe a page of links to small guys websites and a photogallery.

Longtallronnie

Did Feline guitars make it over? I miss drooling over his stuff.

TTony

Longtallronnie said:

Did Feline guitars make it over? I miss drooling over his stuff.

He's here.

 

[edit]

And I've just moved the discussion from Classifieds>Guitars into Gear>Guitar as it's not really about selling stuff.

Longtallronnie

I assume he's aware of the 80% discount to all theFB members?

JookyChap

Longtallronnie said:

I assume he's aware of the 80% discount to all theFB members?

Yeah, he's just off doubling his prices..

OilCityPickups

There's actually another side effect that isn't immediate is that normally Jon from Feline, myself, Andy from Wudtone, Hayden etc don't get a chance to chat with each other ... never mind you lot! Cooperation in the small UK music industry is damn useful ... and in the long run probably beneficial to the customers! 
I think we all realise it's a privilidge to be able to have a profile on here and try not to extract the wee wee. I think I've posted twice on TDPRI as the rules are so strictly enforced if anyone asks what you do for a living you have to be stupidly coy.

TTony

TheGuitarWeasel said:

There's actually another side effect that isn't immediate is that normally Jon from Feline, myself, Andy from Wudtone, Hayden etc don't get a chance to chat with each other ...

There's an idea.

Would there be any value in the "professionals" having their own section for business-type discussions?  That could be closed/private if necessary so it's not visible to us general consumerists.

Probably not enough of you guys here (yet), but something for the future perhaps ...

OilCityPickups

If we get a few more more it's an idea ... I don't know about closed ... I mean we can PM eachother as it stands ... but a UK music pros section would be nice eventually.

FelineGuitars

Hi - I'm here, but haven't been posting that much anywhere due to being distracted watching catch up episodes of Breaking Bad.

I'm hoping that this forum will grow to be as established as MR was.

Also I appreciate the attitude towards allowing UK businesses who make stuff rather than just distributors have a bit of a playground.

We do have some really good talent over here but all too often it seems we'd all rather fawn over somer guy in USA when our homegrown talent is just as good.

I'd love to see a weekend guitar show where all the British guys would go along and show off their stuff  without it needing to break the bank to do. 

Recently talking with Ash at Oil City reminded me how easily all the enterprising UK makers of stuff can get along and be social about stuff. 

I did start trying to have a closed group on Facebook called the UK Luthiers Social Club, the entrance proviso is that you be a FULL TIME

I'm really enjoying the new forum, although struggling a bit with some of the new format and some things that I was used to from MR I can't find and it may just be me struggling to come to terms with the format

Maybe there will be things that can be ironed out next time a revision is done

Make it easier to look through posts someone has done 

A clearer Private message system

Lose some of the silly token thingies - like getting brownie points etc in favour of straightforward functionality

I don't need LOLs Wows and facepalms - just easy navigation 

TTony

FelineGuitars said:

I'm really enjoying the new forum, although struggling a bit with some of the new format and some things that I was used to from MR I can't find and it may just be me struggling to come to terms with the format

 

Give us some specifics - what are you struggling with?

 

Make it easier to look through posts someone has done 

A clearer Private message system

Click on the person's name.  That takes you to their profile page.  Under their avatar, on the LHS of the page, you should see headings for Activity, Discussions and Comments.  Click comments to see everything that they've posted, when, and in which discussion.  Click on the discussion title (in blue at the bottom of each comment made) to see the full context of the discussion in which the comment was made.

For PMs, click the envelope icon which is always displayed, under your userid.  That'll take you to the PM screen where you see the list of PMs by title and correspondent.  Click on any of the individual messages to see the full history of message in/out.

If you want to include someone else into a PM discussion, invite them with @FelineGuitars.

 

FelineGuitars said:

Lose some of the silly token thingies - like getting brownie points etc in favour of straightforward functionality

I don't need LOLs Wows and facepalms - just easy navigation 

Don't go there!

The intention was that those would give a better indication of someone's contribution to the forum rather than just "post count".  Thus, if a person was giving advice, but had no advice points and lots of facepalms, you might not treat it too seriously (etc).  The concept is still finding its way ...

OilCityPickups

I will say nothing .... :P

WezV

since I am mentioned in the first post  and people seem to want to distinguish between pro's and enthusiastic amateurs I suppose  I will explain my situation again 

I am not, and have never have been, a full time guitar builder.  I started when i worked in schools and found myself with a massive amount of free time during summer.  I now do an office job for a major brewer and guitar building has slowed down a lot since i changed careers and my baby was born 18 months ago.

I was faced with the choice a few years ago whether to "go pro" or stick with it as a "hobby".   I decided i could make a better living in a normal job and guitar building would always be a nice escape  rather than something I need to stress about.   It was a wise choice given the number of new "pro-luthiers" that have arisen in the UK since then... many of which have not made a fraction of the guitars i have or worked with the variety of guitars and repairs... but that is beside the point

when i was doing about 10 guitars a year they ended up being mostly tele's, and doing it full time would have meant turning down (or charging the earth for) anything out of the ordinary as it just wouldn't be profitable.

I  remember when Nathan Sheppard was getting loads of great reviews in guitarist and  thought that could be me... in a way it is, but i had the common sense to hold back from letting things get beyond a level I could handle

i will just carry on doing what I can, when I can for the people who are willing to wait for me to get around to it. 

JookyChap

I don't think the criteria is whether people are doing this full-time as such, more whether they are professional in what they do and whether they 'give' their experience to us lesser mortals on the forum without turning it into an obvious advertorial. I'd certainly be including Mr WezV in anything we do in this department as he tops out in both and is a nice geezer while he is at it

TTony

WezV said:

since I am mentioned in the first post  and people seem to want to distinguish between pro's and enthusiastic amateurs I suppose  I will explain my situation again 

Apologies if that was my misleading reference to "professionals" potentially having their own area to discuss stuff.  I was just thinking that there might be confidential or sensitive aspects that might be of value/interest for them to discuss - where to get funding, how to deal with bad debtors, maybe some collaborations, that sort of thing.

Personally (and it is just my individual personal preference, not a forum policy!) I'd really like for this forum to be used to promote the work of the smaller or more specialist UK builders, whether they're professional or amateur, in whatever way those builders want it to, as long as it's in keeping with the way that we're trying to run the rest of the forum.  It used to really frustrate me that the mags would always publish review of the latest G/F/P minor change, but never paid much attention to the UK builders who really could have used the exposure and support.

I've put my money where my mouth is through the years, and never regretted it - I'd much rather play a guitar that's been made, rather than one that's been produced - and I've got some wonderful, unique guitars as a result.  

As you know

digitalscream

TTony said:

I've put my money where my mouth is through the years, and never regretted it - I'd much rather play a guitar that's been made, rather than one that's been produced - and I've got some wonderful, unique guitars as a result.  

I'm with you on that. I have one guitar that's made by a UK luthier, and it's singlehandedly cured my GAS for anything else.

Don't forget @jaden has an account on here too, although he's currently too busy trying to kill himself offroading to post on forums...

WezV

I didn't mean to put a downer on anything.   I think all that has been spoken about so far is fine.   I  am just aware i straddle a fence.

I was on PG for ages thinking of myself as an enthusiastic amateur  and suddenly it became important for some people over there to try and classify and define my involvement in the guitar industry.   Perry Ormsby told me in no uncertain terms that i was a pro, and i was a pro because of the quality of my output.  fair enough but i know others would disagree

I know others would say you are not a pro unless you are full time, and I know some that would say you are not a pro unless you do every part of the operation yourself (often these allow for buying hardware and pickups from others)

none of this matters really because i will carry on to work the way i think is best for me and i carry on making guitars as best i can

I do think its important i am clear that i don't do this full time, just because i feel its important I manage customer expectations properly.

I do sometimes feel guilty that i am taking money away from the guys that do it full time. but I also know I share a few customers with Jon, and at least 2 of those will still use both of us on a regular basis depending on what they want.  I also know i turn down a lot more work than i accept   

TTony

WezV said:

Perry Ormsby told me in no uncertain terms that i was a pro, and i was a pro because of the quality of my output.  fair enough but i know others would disagree

I know others would say you are not a pro unless you are full time  

Part-time pro.  

FWIW, I don't think that it's a zero-sum game - ie if someone buys one of your guitars, they then don't buy a Feline (or whatever).  That's not what happens.

I think the bigger challenge is to raise awareness of the quality of guitars being produced by UK small builders so that they become a recognised choice for UK guitar buyers.  The competition isn't each other (whether hobbyist or pro, part or full-time), it's the Gibson, Fender or PRS alternatives that hang from the walls of most guitar shops and which are the brands that most guitar buyers aspire to.  Because those are "the best" (it says so in all the magazines).

Actually, my first small-builder buy (NSG) was at the London guitar show from a few years ago.  I went to the show with the wifely approval to spend sufficient to buy my "dream" guitar which, at that time, was something with a PRS on the headstock.  They looked wonderful in all the ads.  So, I headed to a stand with lots of PRSs on it, picked up a few, strummed a couple, but didn't really "feel" anything about them.  I then happened by Nathan's stand, chatted with the guy for a bit, picked up some of his guitars and did "feel" something.  I bought one of Nathan's, and left the PRS behind.

PRS was a whole lot better at business than NSG.  But Nathan's guitars were better.