I started this thread, really so as not to take the Cornell Rip thread into a stupid place.
But
@Antifish raised a question that has always puzzled me as I see over the top outpourings of grief over celeb death from time to time and I don't understand it.
Sad news.
Cobain, Staley, Weiland and now Cornell
What does it mean when your idols kill themselves?
Nothing. Except perhaps that being a massively successful musician doesn't mean you are mentally able to deal with or make you immune from being human.
You don't think being attracted to music written by them means anything?
@antifish well, yes. but beyond a sadness of life passing, but the personal attachment is one way, and it's based upon an image a person portrays. I love music. But my emotional attachment is to the record, not to the artist. As much as I loved Soundgarden and they formed a big part of my teens along with Nirvana and AIC, the actual deaths mean little to me. Same as Bowie, Prince, et all.
I don't know, I just don't have the ability to make an emotional connection to a person that I have no two way interaction with.
Sure it's sad. Sure they can have a meaningful impact on your life through their work, but the relationship is not a real one as the relationship is actually to the music and not the person. I've never understand out pourings of grief beyond basic compassion and sadness over celebrity deaths. If you've properly met them, or worked with them, then I totally get it, but otherwise what you are "grieving" is an image of what you think that person personifies.
The deaths of these 4 have been human tragedies, suicide and substance abuse, hand in hand. I wonder if they ever had any support from the industry. I think with these grunge guys, they were not in anyway equipped to deal with the success that movement had. I have no idea why, but the personalities it carried seem to have been frail.
Many people aspire to be famous, or to be a successful musician, but I reckon it can be a pretty lonely and tough existence if you are not careful.
Anyways, Cornell's death is sad news and as always, the ones I feel really sorry for are his kids.
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I personally don't get affected by celebrities death, but I can see how others do.
Mostly I think for the connection I had with his music, Soundgarden got me through some pretty tough times as a teenager and AudioSlave first hit when I was travelling around Australia.
All things that evoke strong personal memories for me, which is the emotional connection, if not with the man himself, but with the parts of my past that he soundtracked.
His passing now is also linked to those times.
Also Its sad when someone takes their own life, when your demons take control in anyway, its a reminder of how finely balanced life can sometimes be.
I personally have suffered with depression and have self harmed and considered 'ending it' I'm out the other side and thankfully free of those thoughts now, but it's like a shadow that is just out of my line of sight, I know it's there but it can't catch me now.
So in answer to your point, I suppose I'm not grieving for him, nor the image he portrayed, I'm grieving for what he meant to me, and the parts of my life that he affected.
An please don't get me wrong on this, I don't believe that there is right or wrong. Just it's something I don't understand. I don't know, maybe it's just another social media skew. But I saw some really emotional status updates about a few of the deaths last year and I just don't understand it.
I don't understand it either. I wonder if it's an opportunity to feel community spirit, bound in grief, as it is it maybe removes some of the barriers that we face in feeling community spirit in other areas of life? I don't know. I'm sure there will be sociologists who have examined the phenomenon.
It's normal to feel sad when someone dies, especially folk who you felt affection for due to their art. If you identified with what they were saying then it does build a 'relationship' of sorts, but it does seem to have developed quite a bit beyond what I would class as normal in the last few years.
We'll possibly get flamed for this, but I sort of agree with you.
I find myself preoccupied with death since my own Dad died (years ago, so I'm not pining for sympathy); it changes your outlook, and a few of the celebrity deaths of recent years have hit me fairly hard.
But... I feel some people compete as if to say they love the dead celebrity more than anyone else there. (I'm NOT talking about The Fretboard by the way.) Death is a personal matter to the family, and fans & fellow professionals adding warm comments is probably fine; but hangers-on trying to get in on the action is a bit unseemly...
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So was it the death, maybe not so much. But he was still someone who was a big influence on me, and it was a shame to lose it.
People grieve in so many different ways. It's ok to not be ok, and it's ok to be ok. No point in judging other people's feelings on it mind
It's another thing to be affected by the death of someone you don't know, but part of whose life you are familiar with without them knowing you.
I often think that this is symptomatic of living your life through others. Maybe it's just a reminder of our own mortality.
But Cornell seemed to have made it out the other side, had a (seemingly) stable, happy life with a wife and two kids. Sound garden were making new music and have been actively touring, and he's seemed happy in his sober self in recent years...so waking up to the news yesterday was a massive shock and hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm "over it" now, in that I didn't know him, and am managing to go about my daily life, but I'm sat here listening to Badmotorfinger and it is sad. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Temple of the Dog, Mad Season and Mother Love Bone were my life from about aged 15 to 21-22 (my english A-Level piece was an article I wrote about the "Seattle Connection" and how incestious the whole scene is/was), I've lived in Seattle and these bands have a massive connection with me. I consider that place my second home and I love the music that comes from there. I think that's why I was a bit devastated yesterday, because of the initial shock.
Just my two penneth.
However, I do feel there is something more. As musicians we know that when we create something we give something of ourselves away (how often do we think of that song, album or band as our child) and it is an awareness of that personal involvement in the creative process that I think allows for a unique bond between the listener and the creator of the art. As such those memories and associations become more personal, almost shared -even if such a thing is scientifically impossible. From conversation with members of the audience after shows they too often make these connections.
I think that that sense of connection is different to just being a fan or idolising someone, because great art demands such a personal response, such a connection.
As a result the response Chris Cornell's death has created in me is vastly different to the response I'd give to the death of a film star or member of the royal family for example, who I might think 'oh that's sad for their family' but then have moved on almost immediately.
I also share the view as also expressed here that loss often reminds us of other losses we have experienced. When that is suicide I too find that all the more painful (even worse when the methodology is shared), it becomes a reminder of the pain felt before. Combined these aspects have meant that for me at least (as it seems to have been for a lot of us here) yesterday was one hell of a blow.
The death of a relative, close friend or work colleague has an immediate and irreversible impact on one's daily life. The more sudden or extreme their demise, the more difficult it can be to accept.
Those we call celebrities tend to be people we admire but are unlikely to ever meet. Whilst their deaths mean no more of their optional entertainment products, there is no tangible bearing on daily life for anyone outside the deceased's social circle.
Think it through for a mo'. "Oh, shucks. My favourite entertainer just died. How will I fulfil my desire for more of his/her output?" The concern expressed is more for oneself as a consumer than for those close to the recently deceased.
If you take my John Martyn obsession - I've loved his music since 17 - I own everything he's ever released, I saw him play over 30 times and met him on a few occasions. Even though I didn't 'know' him - he had a profound effect on my life. Inevitably when he died, I felt a very genuine sense of loss (I know what real ones feel like, having lost both parents, a sister and various other family members).
I think anyone who has brought some joy - or has some other significance, in your life - should be mourned in some way, regardless of whether you were on each other's Christmas card list....
And I don't mean you personally as I have no idea if you have or not, but just the general trend.