EL34 or. 6L6 better suited to my needs ?

Telejester

ICBM said:

ecc83 said:

Ah! The OD path. There are actually THREE IC stages before the valve (but one is a buffer so 'in' is 'out') . I was referring to the clean path which is just the first, single IC stage. As to the diode feedback compressor, your own investigations IC have shown that it produces way more signal than the valve can handle before it starts to work. (the first triode has a very high gain) .

Yes, but if you're slamming the amp with a much higher than normal signal level it might be a bit different - I didn't when I tested it, since that's something I never do. I have heard a lot of people make the same complaint about them not responding well to pedals though. (See Bucket above, among others.) I may be wrong about the exact mechanism but there is definitely something in the way the amp reacts to pedals which is quite different from a traditional valve amp.

ecc83 said:

You have mentioned your dislike of the OD sound before (once or twice!) but that does not seem the general view of the amps. How many samples have you checked? There are several guys at B's play testing  amps all the time. Different genres and likes and dislikes. It is odd that you have found this problem but they, nor anyone else have not?

Every Blackstar of every model that's ever come through the shop . I just don't like the voicing of the overdrive channel - it's too dark, muddy and compressed for me regardless of the model/series.

We've said this before but I actually think Blackstar know exactly what they're doing since they all sound broadly the same - it's just a voicing I personally don't like - and I know I'm not alone. On the other hand some people seem to like Cornford Harlequins too! Which to me sound far worse than any Blackstar...

One thing I do find odd is how the ISF works - to me, it's backwards. What Blackstar call the 'British' and 'American' sounds are the wrong way round. This doesn't give me any confidence that the designers even listen to amps the way I do - it's a bit like that blue/white dress thing, I just can't hear it the way they clearly do.

I had a cornford harlequin once....returned it immediately

ecc83

Yes IC, we have been down this road before and I REALLY am not trying to defend the amps! I cannot hear well enough/play for ***t or have anything like the experience to judge. I just go by the numbers! There was a guy on an American forum that did not like them. Said they were 'good amplifiers' just did not light HIS fire.

The 'pedal thing' might have some mileage? With the HT range you are effectively putting a pedal into another pedal! (albeit with a valve in the way!)

The latest offering the (bound to cause confusion in my book!) Artist pair ARE designed to take pedals. Perhaps you could get in front of one and give us your impressions?

Dave.

ICBM

I would be interested in that, since as far as I can tell the Artist series is essentially a tweaked HT.

If it makes you feel any better about it I just tried a Fender Bassbreaker 7W combo which was absolutely horrible! No top-end at all, just muddy and harsh midrange.

Telejester

ICBM said:

I would be interested in that, since as far as I can tell the Artist series is essentially a tweaked HT.

If it makes you feel any better about it I just tried a Fender Bassbreaker 7W combo which was absolutely horrible! No top-end at all, just muddy and harsh midrange.

When i tried a bassbreaker 7w the loud background hiss sounded better than the tones.

Danny1969

I thought the bass breaker I tried was awful as well 

ICBM

Telejester said:

When i tried a bassbreaker 7w the loud background hiss sounded better than the tones.

This one hums too!

Telejester

The bassbreaker 15w did nuthin for me either , the 18/30 looks more promising but has a hrd-esque vol control,  off to windows blown in immediately.

ecc83

"I would be interested in that, since as far as I can tell the Artist series is essentially a tweaked HT."

I couldn't possibly say but isn't 'everything' a tweaked 'something' by now?

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

"I would be interested in that, since as far as I can tell the Artist series is essentially a tweaked HT."

I couldn't possibly say but isn't 'everything' a tweaked 'something' by now?

I mean that looking at the panel layouts and the valve complement it looks like a direct evolution of the HT series, just with different power valves. Which doesn't necessarily mean it is of course...

I don't think the HT is a tweaked anything either .

ecc83

"I don't think the HT is a tweaked anything either ." No IC, neither do I! The amps are pretty innovative in their use (as you have said) of sstate components where they work best/make no diff' and valves where they do and the MOSFET PI is a bit of a breakthrough?

No, what I meant was, as far as VOICING and the interplay of distortion and where it is generated in the circuitry, the industry MUST have run the gamut of possibilities by now?  Leo Fender arguably 'invented' the guitar amp and others have copied the basic design, even to the point of copying mistakes! (e.g. PI anode loads) . There are only SO many ways you can put valve and traffs together and make an amp that works (making one that works bloody hard, for a bloody long time HAS escaped many mnfctrs!)  and so the 'valve' guitar amp is always going to be a variant of someone else's idea?

That said. I would commend Merlin Blencowes Tube Preamps book to everyone even remotely interested in the subject. Lot of stuff in that which nobody seems to have used commercially AFAIK?

Plus of course my remark WAS a bit T in Cheek!

Dave.

57Deluxe

being an El34 and 6L6 user I can say that the EL34 will give you the thinner bell chime sound of a VOX and a bit of that Vintagy Marshall early drive tone but the 6L6 will give you more Balls to the Wall and Bloom. Added to that, 6L6 like pedals more.

Marshall

Discussion re: 6L6 vs EL34 to one side, what speakers will you be driving? IME, this has a MUCH bigger impact on your range of available frequencies (tone) than the output valves - as do the transformers actually...
..more ingredients to throw in your mixing bowl ;-)

normula1

ecc83 said:

That said. I would commend Merlin Blencowes Tube Preamps book to everyone even remotely interested in the subject. Lot of stuff in that which nobody seems to have used commercially AFAIK?

Dave.

It's a very interesting read