Clarky and the Helix

Roland

guitarfishbay said:

6db makes sense. A 12db filter at 4.5khz would generally leave very little high end - it's always ears before eyes at the end of the day though.  I think the Fractal does either 6 or 12db.

Fractal can do both 6 and 12dB per octave. I normally use 6

bingefeller

Clarky how do you go about creating a patch?  Do you have any EQ tricks that you generally use to get you started?

Clarky

Clarky said:

some interesting comments…
I'll certainly be trying some of these suggestions..

so here's why I need 3 amps

riff = 2 hi-gain amps panned hard
solo = 1 hi-gain amp panned centre / delay / reverb
clean = 1 clean amp panned centre / reverb

this looks ok.. I can have 1 hi-gain amp in path 1 and the other hi-gain and clean amps in path 2
and use snapshots to switch them off / on and pan them [although I've not tried that yet so this is all theoretical]

so at it's most basic level, these are my tone switching requirements

sorted

path 1A: amp1 / pan
path 1B: col / amp2 / pan
path 1 -> path 2
path 2A: amp3 / dual cab

snapshot1 [riff] = amp1 active: pan=left / vol=bypass: amp2 active: pan=right / amp3 bypass
snapshot2 [solo] = amp1 active: pan=bypass / vol=0: amp2 bypass / amp3 bypass
snapshot3 [clean] = amp1 bypass: pan=bypass / vol=0: amp2 bypass / amp3 bypass / amp3 active

next experiment will be to control parameters via snapshot
essentially get amp1 cooking in snapshot2

Clarky

robinbowes said:

Did you try simply switching presets?

yes.. and typical with modellers you get the gap in audio as the DSP's reload..
this is where the snapshots come into play..
same with scenes in the Axe-FX..
the tone transition is immediate / seamless and you'll preserve the tails of ambient fx..

robinbowes

Clarky said:

robinbowes said:

Did you try simply switching presets?

yes.. and typical with modellers you get the gap in audio as the DSP's reload..
this is where the snapshots come into play..
same with scenes in the Axe-FX..
the tone transition is immediate / seamless and you'll preserve the tails of ambient fx..

I asked because, in a live situation, I don't find I notice any gap. But I guess it depends on what you're playing and when you change sounds.

R.

Clarky

robinbowes said:

Clarky said:

robinbowes said:

Did you try simply switching presets?

yes.. and typical with modellers you get the gap in audio as the DSP's reload..
this is where the snapshots come into play..
same with scenes in the Axe-FX..
the tone transition is immediate / seamless and you'll preserve the tails of ambient fx..

I asked because, in a live situation, I don't find I notice any gap. But I guess it depends on what you're playing and when you change sounds.

R.

I seriously notice it.. and have gone to great lengths in every multi-fx unit I've had to eliminate it..
when it comes to changing presets seamlessly, the 2120 still wins hands down..
a unit from the early 90's still kills them all

Vaiai

When controlling parameters in snapshots if you press down on the knob while turning you get square brackets round it which show that parameter is just for that snapshot. Dead easy to set them that way

Si_

I've never managed to get more than 2 amps on a preset, my main patch only has 2 and I have to make compromises because of it

Jonathanthomas83

Clarky said:

some interesting comments…
I'll certainly be trying some of these suggestions..

so here's why I need 3 amps

riff = 2 hi-gain amps panned hard
solo = 1 hi-gain amp panned centre / delay / reverb
clean = 1 clean amp panned centre / reverb

this looks ok.. I can have 1 hi-gain amp in path 1 and the other hi-gain and clean amps in path 2
and use snapshots to switch them off / on and pan them [although I've not tried that yet so this is all theoretical]

so at it's most basic level, these are my tone switching requirements

I know this is kind of off topic, but in order to get this to work on the Axe FX, I assume you use X/Y on the amps. Do you not notice gaps when doing this? If not, how do you go about setting this up to work gapless on the Axe FX? Many thanks.

kjdowd

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Clarky said:

some interesting comments…
I'll certainly be trying some of these suggestions..

so here's why I need 3 amps

riff = 2 hi-gain amps panned hard
solo = 1 hi-gain amp panned centre / delay / reverb
clean = 1 clean amp panned centre / reverb

this looks ok.. I can have 1 hi-gain amp in path 1 and the other hi-gain and clean amps in path 2
and use snapshots to switch them off / on and pan them [although I've not tried that yet so this is all theoretical]

so at it's most basic level, these are my tone switching requirements

I know this is kind of off topic, but in order to get this to work on the Axe FX, I assume you use X/Y on the amps. Do you not notice gaps when doing this? If not, how do you go about setting this up to work gapless on the Axe FX? Many thanks.

AX8 you have to use XY and there is a gap. Full fat axe fx has more DSP tho so you can have more than one amp in a patch without XY. Or at least so I understand. 

Jonathanthomas83

kjdowd said:

AX8 you have to use XY and there is a gap. Full fat axe fx has more DSP tho so you can have more than one amp in a patch without XY. Or at least so I understand. 

Yes, that's correct, I typically use two amp blocks on the Axe FX II XL, but must admit, have never tried the XY approach in fear of "a gap"! Would be cool to try when I get home though. I think this is the reason I couldn't fully commit to the AX8, seems a real shame that you can only have one amp block.

stratman3142

Si_ said:

I've never managed to get more than 2 amps on a preset, my main patch only has 2 and I have to make compromises because of it

Have you tried sharing the amps between path A and B?

Clarky

Si_ said:

I've never managed to get more than 2 amps on a preset, my main patch only has 2 and I have to make compromises because of it

I found I could only place 2 in a single path

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Clarky said:

some interesting comments…
I'll certainly be trying some of these suggestions..

so here's why I need 3 amps

riff = 2 hi-gain amps panned hard
solo = 1 hi-gain amp panned centre / delay / reverb
clean = 1 clean amp panned centre / reverb

this looks ok.. I can have 1 hi-gain amp in path 1 and the other hi-gain and clean amps in path 2
and use snapshots to switch them off / on and pan them [although I've not tried that yet so this is all theoretical]

so at it's most basic level, these are my tone switching requirements

I know this is kind of off topic, but in order to get this to work on the Axe FX, I assume you use X/Y on the amps. Do you not notice gaps when doing this? If not, how do you go about setting this up to work gapless on the Axe FX? Many thanks.

I get around it

the transitions that matter most are riff -> solo and clean -> solo
the amp for solo is in a different block to the clean amp and is the same block as one of the riff amps
clean -> solo is a change in signal path, riff -> solo bypasses one of the riff amps and changes the pan in the other
the only transition that has a gap is clean -> riff because amp2 has to flip Y->X
the clean tone has a nice big reverb so the trails mask that..
so essentially… there is never a gap

Clarky

stratman3142 said:

Si_ said:

I've never managed to get more than 2 amps on a preset, my main patch only has 2 and I have to make compromises because of it

Have you tried sharing the amps between path A and B?

that's exactly what I did..

Jonathanthomas83

Clarky said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Clarky said:

some interesting comments…
I'll certainly be trying some of these suggestions..

so here's why I need 3 amps

riff = 2 hi-gain amps panned hard
solo = 1 hi-gain amp panned centre / delay / reverb
clean = 1 clean amp panned centre / reverb

this looks ok.. I can have 1 hi-gain amp in path 1 and the other hi-gain and clean amps in path 2
and use snapshots to switch them off / on and pan them [although I've not tried that yet so this is all theoretical]

so at it's most basic level, these are my tone switching requirements

I know this is kind of off topic, but in order to get this to work on the Axe FX, I assume you use X/Y on the amps. Do you not notice gaps when doing this? If not, how do you go about setting this up to work gapless on the Axe FX? Many thanks.

I get around it

the transitions that matter most are riff -> solo and clean -> solo
the amp for solo is in a different block to the clean amp and is the same block as one of the riff amps
clean -> solo is a change in signal path, riff -> solo bypasses one of the riff amps and changes the pan in the other
the only transition that has a gap is clean -> riff because amp2 has to flip Y->X
the clean tone has a nice big reverb so the trails mask that..
so essentially… there is never a gap

Great stuff, thank you! I had a feeling you may have used trails to mask it.

kjdowd

Jonathanthomas83 said:

kjdowd said:

AX8 you have to use XY and there is a gap. Full fat axe fx has more DSP tho so you can have more than one amp in a patch without XY. Or at least so I understand. 

Yes, that's correct, I typically use two amp blocks on the Axe FX II XL, but must admit, have never tried the XY approach in fear of "a gap"! Would be cool to try when I get home though. I think this is the reason I couldn't fully commit to the AX8, seems a real shame that you can only have one amp block.

Tis the reason I'm considering moving from AX8 to Axe FX II XL...

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Clarky said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Clarky said:

some interesting comments…
I'll certainly be trying some of these suggestions..

so here's why I need 3 amps

riff = 2 hi-gain amps panned hard
solo = 1 hi-gain amp panned centre / delay / reverb
clean = 1 clean amp panned centre / reverb

this looks ok.. I can have 1 hi-gain amp in path 1 and the other hi-gain and clean amps in path 2
and use snapshots to switch them off / on and pan them [although I've not tried that yet so this is all theoretical]

so at it's most basic level, these are my tone switching requirements

I know this is kind of off topic, but in order to get this to work on the Axe FX, I assume you use X/Y on the amps. Do you not notice gaps when doing this? If not, how do you go about setting this up to work gapless on the Axe FX? Many thanks.

I get around it

the transitions that matter most are riff -> solo and clean -> solo
the amp for solo is in a different block to the clean amp and is the same block as one of the riff amps
clean -> solo is a change in signal path, riff -> solo bypasses one of the riff amps and changes the pan in the other
the only transition that has a gap is clean -> riff because amp2 has to flip Y->X
the clean tone has a nice big reverb so the trails mask that..
so essentially… there is never a gap

Great stuff, thank you! I had a feeling you may have used trails to mask it.

the killer thing is to evaluate what you need rather than what the unit can do..
these transitions are most common and I've made them seamless
riff -> solo / solo -> riff
clean -> solo / solo -> clean

clean -> riff / riff -> clean only happens in 2 songs in the set
in one song [Starless and Bible Black] there I have a 2 bar rest to get from clean to riff… which is easy.. lol..
in the other [Exiles] there is no gap clean -> riff which is filled by the reverb tails
and no gap riff -> clean.. this is the one that is most exposed so I mask it in the performance itself by 'throwing away' the power chord which leaves a logical 'rest' of 1/8 note.. so in this case the transition is 'apparently seamless'..

Clarky

kjdowd said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

kjdowd said:

AX8 you have to use XY and there is a gap. Full fat axe fx has more DSP tho so you can have more than one amp in a patch without XY. Or at least so I understand. 

Yes, that's correct, I typically use two amp blocks on the Axe FX II XL, but must admit, have never tried the XY approach in fear of "a gap"! Would be cool to try when I get home though. I think this is the reason I couldn't fully commit to the AX8, seems a real shame that you can only have one amp block.

Tis the reason I'm considering moving from AX8 to Axe FX II XL…

I tried the AX8 and couldn't make it work for me..
yes it has all that beautiful Fractal modelling - which to my ear is still far superior to everything else..
but there's a lot of other stuff missing in the control areas..
folks talk about it like it's an Axe-FX with only one amp and one cab..
in reality it seemed to me to be a bit less than that..
sure it'll be a fabulous unit for a great many folks, but not for me..

Jonathanthomas83

@Clarky how are you finding the modelling on the Helix now you've spent more time with it? I agree that the Fractal sounds superior to most of the stuff I've tried too.

What band do you play in, by the way? If you don't mind me asking.