Helix Native

guitarfishbay

Basically I am sat here using the Ownhammer Ampeg IR pack and between that and the Helix drive and amp models I'm finding I can get most tones I need so far, and without too much time spent tweaking (which is a major factor to me).

CHrisP86

Just got a chance to try this, and against Amplitube and Bias Amp.

I think Helix native sounds and feels great. That's just going through the presets.

Bias sounded awful by comparison, really boomy and unnatural.

I actually thought that Amplitube sounded similar to Helix. Not quite as user friendly as Helix and the selection of amps didn't seem as good.

Will be saving up for Helix native!

That, logic and my iRig HD will be a great silent practice/recording setup!

guitarfishbay

I also prefer both Amplitube and Helix to Bias.  I think Bias is also the most expensive too.

Amplitube has a lot of amps if you get all the add on packs, but they've all been made at different times, and the later stuff is better than the earlier stuff at least for what I like.

I really rate the Amplitube SVX pack for bass, for bread and butter cleanish to warmish bass sounds.  I think the options for more gritty and distorted bass tones in the Helix are better, and probably the best on any modeller available.

I still dislike the interface for Native though and I think the Amplitube one is better on a page per page basis.  The only thing I prefer on the Helix is you can see all your routing in one page, whereas Amplitube is tabbed.  When it comes to tweaking parameters I just can't get used to these horizontal lines and the current need for scrolling, it's clunky and slow.  It wouldn't stop me using the plugin, and I still think they made a valid choice in keeping it consistent with the hardware... but I don't like it personally.

I'm finding that I like Helix Native for bass sounds, but I can't really justify it to myself on that alone, given I don't get the hardware discount Helix users get.

The only way it'd make sense to me is if I sold all my bass pedals and bought a full fat Helix and Native with the big discount... that way I'd stick with Fractal for guitars and Helix for bass.  But a mixture of laziness to sell everything and genuine enjoyment from the pedals is kind of stopping that feeling like the right thing to do, at least right now.

dindude

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

gibsongretschfan

dindude said:

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

I just don't understand why people come to forums to post here sorts of opinions. Helix does not sound awful. It just doesn't. With all due respect are you sure it isn't you that's making it sound awful? I've made plenty of good gear and plugins sound crap in my time

Fretwired

guitarfishbay said:

I still dislike the interface for Native though and I think the Amplitube one is better on a page per page basis.  The only thing I prefer on the Helix is you can see all your routing in one page, whereas Amplitube is tabbed.  When it comes to tweaking parameters I just can't get used to these horizontal lines and the current need for scrolling, it's clunky and slow.  It wouldn't stop me using the plugin, and I still think they made a valid choice in keeping it consistent with the hardware... but I don't like it personally.

I'm finding that I like Helix Native for bass sounds, but I can't really justify it to myself on that alone, given I don't get the hardware discount Helix users get.

There's a button on Amplitube to see the routing on a similar basis to Helix.

I agree about the SVG pack - I use it, although in modelling terms it's quite old. I think I read they are working on a new one.

Helix sounds good - I just can't justify it on the basis it's not that much better than what I currently have.

guitarfishbay

dindude said:

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

To be fair those aren't particularly powerful or big sounding monitors.

If you're comparing a pair of relatively low end 5" monitors to a presumably nice 12" guitar amp you're never going to get close, even ignoring the obvious mic'd vs in the room stuff.

I strongly prefer 6" monitors to 5", it really does make a big difference like for like. The nicest 5s I've heard are the Neumanns, but next to a similar quality 6" speaker they do sound smaller and there's no getting around that, at any volume

digitalscream

dindude said:

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

Is it possible you're just not getting on with the fact that full-range modellers have to incorporate the mic into the signal chain by definition, rather than when you're playing through an amp it's speaker -> ears. That's no slight on you, some people just can't get used to it or just plain don't like it.

dindude

gibsongretschfan said:

dindude said:

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

I just don't understand why people come to forums to post here sorts of opinions. Helix does not sound awful. It just doesn't. With all due respect are you sure it isn't you that's making it sound awful? I've made plenty of good gear and plugins sound crap in my time

I didn't expect it to be a popular opinion. Like I say, I've spent only a bit of time with it this morning and that is the impression I've come away with, like it or not, I just could not get inspired by what I heard in a month of Sundays, it really was bad.

Now i I do know that others have had similar first impression and then went on to love Helix, so I'm not saying there's not something in there. What I've got to consider is that I only get roughly 1 to 2 hours a week to properly play guitar at the moment, so I don't think endless tweaking fits with me, I want to be playing in this time.

guitarfishbay

dindude said:

I didn't expect it to be a popular opinion. Like I say, I've spent only a bit of time with it this morning and that is the impression I've come away with, like it or not, I just could not get inspired by what I heard in a month of Sundays, it really was bad.

Now i I do know that others have had similar first impression and then went on to love Helix, so I'm not saying there's not something in there. What I've got to consider is that I only get roughly 1 to 2 hours a week to properly play guitar at the moment, so I don't think endless tweaking fits with me, I want to be playing in this time.

Then just stick with amps

It's still the right choice for many people

dindude

@digitalscream and @guitarfishbay I think you've both made valid comments. Believe or not I did want it to work as I do want a digital solution for headphone options or quick recording, I might still stump up for S-gear as a). It's only a hundred quid and b). It's  simple enough, without too many adoptions, so I can get my arms around it.

I do also think that those on here who are really getting on with Helix use pretty high gain as a core sound. I live mostly in the mid-gain region and at higher gains I want more of a loose fuzzstortion type thing. 

digitalscream

dindude said:

@digitalscream and @guitarfishbay I think you've both made valid comments. Believe or not I did want it to work as I do want a digital solution for headphone options or quick recording, I might still stump up for S-gear as a). It's only a hundred quid and b). It's  simple enough, without too many adoptions, so I can get my arms around it.

I do also think that those on here who are really getting on with Helix use pretty high gain as a core sound. I live mostly in the mid-gain region and at higher gains I want more of a loose fuzzstortion type thing. 

Also possible - modellers tend to be used by folk in the high-gain business, because that sort of guitar sound can often involve a lot more complexity in the signal path compared with lower-gain stuff.

TimmyO

dindude said:

I do also think that those on here who are really getting on with Helix use pretty high gain as a core sound. 

I really don't - some of the metalz demos I've seen on YT leave me wondering how anyone can discern a tone among the shreddy bleeps and bloops and palm muted stuff :-) (OK I'm being cheeky ;-) ) 

I live in that clean -> blues -> Dad Rock zone and love the sounds. 

TimmyO

(also, I liked s-Gear when I tried it too) 

guitarfishbay

dindude said:

I do also think that those on here who are really getting on with Helix use pretty high gain as a core sound. I live mostly in the mid-gain region and at higher gains I want more of a loose fuzzstortion type thing. 

Well I primarily use a high gain sound and I can't get on with the Helix guitar amp modelling either. The Axe FX amps are considerably more plug and play to me, and also I think they do sound and feel better even after tweaking the Helix, at least for the way I play and the sounds I want.

ruoma

dindude said:

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

You should try micing your own anp with an sm57 and then compare. There will still be a difference but it will be less! Hearing your guitar through a mic is a sobering and not really pleasant experience without spicing it up with some room simulating reverb and delay fx. 

dindude

ruoma said:

dindude said:

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

You should try micing your own anp with an sm57 and then compare. There will still be a difference but it will be less! Hearing your guitar through a mic is a sobering and not really pleasant experience without spicing it up with some room simulating reverb and delay fx. 

That's exactly what I do for the little amount of recording that I do. For example, I've done a few pedalboard run throughs in the past with just an SM57 stuck in front of my amp and I'm happy enough to chuck them out there as a fairly accurate representation of my sounds. I tolerate the headphones tracking as I record but yes never great.

Its the feel thing though, as you are playing and interacting with the modelling and FRFR vs amp and pedals that doesn't compute with me.

John_A

dindude said:

@digitalscream and @guitarfishbay I think you've both made valid comments. Believe or not I did want it to work as I do want a digital solution for headphone options or quick recording, I might still stump up for S-gear as a). It's only a hundred quid and b). It's  simple enough, without too many adoptions, so I can get my arms around it.

I do also think that those on here who are really getting on with Helix use pretty high gain as a core sound. I live mostly in the mid-gain region and at higher gains I want more of a loose fuzzstortion type thing. 

Very rarely use a high gain sound, I'm using mostly classic rock sounds and love my Helix

Jonathanthomas83

dindude said:

ruoma said:

dindude said:

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

You should try micing your own anp with an sm57 and then compare. There will still be a difference but it will be less! Hearing your guitar through a mic is a sobering and not really pleasant experience without spicing it up with some room simulating reverb and delay fx. 

That's exactly what I do for the little amount of recording that I do. For example, I've done a few pedalboard run throughs in the past with just an SM57 stuck in front of my amp and I'm happy enough to chuck them out there as a fairly accurate representation of my sounds. I tolerate the headphones tracking as I record but yes never great.

Its the feel thing though, as you are playing and interacting with the modelling and FRFR vs amp and pedals that doesn't compute with me.

@dindude have you tried FRFR on anything other than your HS5s?

dindude

Jonathanthomas83 said:

dindude said:

ruoma said:

dindude said:

Downloaded the free Native trial this morning. Only had an hour with it and maybe will get an hour tomorrow. I know everyone say stay away from the presets but you've got to start somewhere. Honestly, it sounds aweful. Just no better than the Digitech RP50 or something I had many years ago. I'm running through an audient interface into my Mac and out to Yamaha HS5's. 
I just don't think I get on with the full range modelling experience - I reckon with a lot of tweaking I could get something that sits well in a mix, but for just guitarplaying by myself, even at neibour friendly volumes, I just don't know where people are coming from with this - its not a patch on amp and pedals.

Nothing against Line 6 either, I've had the same experienice with S-gear and others I've tried.

You should try micing your own anp with an sm57 and then compare. There will still be a difference but it will be less! Hearing your guitar through a mic is a sobering and not really pleasant experience without spicing it up with some room simulating reverb and delay fx. 

That's exactly what I do for the little amount of recording that I do. For example, I've done a few pedalboard run throughs in the past with just an SM57 stuck in front of my amp and I'm happy enough to chuck them out there as a fairly accurate representation of my sounds. I tolerate the headphones tracking as I record but yes never great.

Its the feel thing though, as you are playing and interacting with the modelling and FRFR vs amp and pedals that doesn't compute with me.

@dindude have you tried FRFR on anything other than your HS5s?

Nope just the Yams and headphones.