Josh Smith - a great honest post

Jack_

shaunm said:

Jack_ said:

shaunm said:

Jack_ said:

Guy playing blues 50 years after its peak in "not making any money" shocker.

Or 

Enormously proficient guitarist can't get paying work. 

I'm really proficient at mining coal, but I can't get paying work.

Well it would seem that your talents are being wasted. 

Yeah, I was so desperate I had to take on a job as an internet troll.

Philly_Q

UnclePsychosis said:

Streaming services make money for the labels but not for any of the musicians (except for the global megastars). 

If you want to support a band or artists you have to buy their cds, merchandise and gig tickets. Streaming income is so small it might as well not exist. 

The problem for artists now is that streaming sites offer a bloody great deal to the consumer. There is also pretty much an entire generation who have got used to the idea that you either download stuff for free or you get unlimited streams for £10 a month. It's going to be very hard to convince those people to start paying £10 a cd. 

Problem is, CDs aren't £10 any more,  The bands I listen to, I look for their CDs on Amazon and they're now £15, £18... because CDs aren't selling any more, the retailers are trying to make more out of the few people who do buy (it's often cheaper now to buy direct from bands' websites, presumably they get a bigger cut that way too).

I've carried on buying CDs long after the advent of downloads and streaming, but I got used to them being 7 or 8 quid for many years and I must admit I'm reluctant to now pay 15 or 18 - especially since I carry on listening to them on Spotify even when I do own the CDs.

By the way, not trying to be funny but I've never heard of Josh Smith either.

mudslide73

I really like Josh and think he's a top player. Unfortunately being very good at something not many people are interested in isn't conducive to earning a living. Maybe getting in a band with someone who's established for some of the time (Jon Herrington in Steely Dan, Doyle Bramhall II etc.) and doing the Josh Smith thing the rest is the way forward. 

Plectrum

Modulus_Amps said:

he is a great player, but he has chosen a hard gig to make it "big" financially I would think. you need more than a good guitarist to make money, there are loads on youtube, you need a really good team that knows how to take your skill and turn it into money.

Exactly. When you work for yourself (be it as a musician, builder or whatever) you need some basic business sense. There's really no excuse for losing money on a tour. All the costs are researchable ahead of time. If the income doesn't exceed the expenses you don't do it.

photek

Very interesting post, nice for someone to be candid about some of the difficulties in the industry. I am a big fan of Josh since the early Lovepedal demos he did. This makes a bit more sense of why Nuno Bettencourt was playing Guitar for Rihanna and Guthrie playing with Dizzie Rascal!

shaunm

mudslide73 said:

I really like Josh and think he's a top player. Unfortunately being very good at something not many people are interested in isn't conducive to earning a living. Maybe getting in a band with someone who's established for some of the time (Jon Herrington in Steely Dan, Doyle Bramhall II etc.) and doing the Josh Smith thing the rest is the way forward. 

Not a bad idea, it worked for Derek Trucks too.

It must be very difficult to make a living playing blues though. @Jack_ is right, it peaked a long time ago. It's been done. That being said as I mentioned above personally I'm not doing enough to support music I enjoy.

richardhomer

I'm not familiar with him - though clearly based on the JoBo clip he's a decent player - but at the risk of upsetting someone - what's his USP? There are countless blues based players around who play at that level. 

If he was playing near me, I may well go and see him - but I wouldn't buy his music - I've got plenty of stuff in a similar vein already.

Iamnobody

viz said:

Chillidoggy said:

Never heard of him. 

Lol

Add me to the never heard of him list as well...

Not sure why the other two who said it got lol'd?

shaunm said:

Jack_ said:

Guy playing blues 50 years after its peak in "not making any money" shocker.

Or 

Enormously proficient guitarist can't get paying work. 

He's not owed a living. He's a more proficient guitarist than say Dan Auerbach but I bet Dan isn't worried about the next pay cheque (these days).

The Black Keys took blues and outputted it in an indie listener friendly sort of package, later on they delivered it in a more mainstream rock/pop format. 

What is his USP?

guitarfishbay

I'm hoping that digital tipping becomes a cultural thing in music.

People give money to buskers but in the digital consumption of music it's going towards free or £10/month streams. Asking for donations is typically frowned upon.

I don't even see why streaming services couldn't integrate it directly, so you pay your £10/month but if you want to chuck an extra £5r to your favourite album that month you could do that if you wanted.

I've not heard of Josh but I'm not really into blues, but wish him all the best. I agree the suggestion of trying to play for someone more established is possibly a good way to make more stable money but that's more easily said than done

Rox

Isn't being penniless and underappreciated the r'aison d'etre of the blues?

shaunm

His USP is a good point. My problem with blues these days is that the song isn't there to support the playing. Like him or loath him John Mayer writes great songs and his playing supports the songs. Most blues players don't follow this blueprint. 

Yes, the Black Keys. I love those guys and they have made it massive as you say. What about Bonamassa, what's his USP? There are better players, better singers, better song writers and better performers so why is he the biggest name in blues? 

Jack_

shaunm said:

His USP is a good point. My problem with blues these days is that the song isn't there to support the playing. Like him or loath him John Mayer writes great songs and his playing supports the songs. Most blues players don't follow this blueprint. 

Yes, the Black Keys. I love those guys and they have made it massive as you say. What about Bonamassa, what's his USP? There are better players, better singers, better song writers and better performers so why is he the biggest name in blues? 

His marketing manager is very good.

stickyfiddle

I'm another who hasn't heard of the guy. 

Has he got any good songs? He might be an amazing guitar player (and is very likely a god bit better than me) but unless he's got songs people want to put on repeat he's not going to get big enough to make serious money. It's the same for everyone. The reason Ed Sheeran is huge is his songs. Same for Coldplay, same for U2, same for every other great artist who has had more than one proper hit album. Guitar playing alone is not enough, because normal people won't care. 

HarrySeven

Jack_ said:

Guy playing blues 50 years after its peak in "not making any money" shocker.

Indeed. Never heard of him. Managed to last 30 seconds on Youtube. Reminded me how much I f*cking hate Blues.

Teetonetal

I only know him because I have the Josh Smith Tremolo from Jrad...

I'm not surprised that he is struggling, I think the majority of musicians are struggling unless they get lucky, find a niche or manage to hook up with a big name. I used to have lessons with Eric Roche, an amazing guitar player. He used to busk to make ends meet.

The sad fact is that making money, enough money out of music is damned hard work and requires constant pushing, being good is not enough. You need the energy and personality to go with it. It's draining. I also wonder if they make enough money to see them into old age?

I think I'm very happy to have music as a hobby.

jellybelly

I had a listen on YouTube (I'd only heard of him through his associations in gear) and hated it. Proficient player though. Sorry Josh!

Back in 'the day' when I worked on the outside of the music biz I used to receive (through no fault of my own) a magazine called 'Blues Matters'. I always felt there should have been a question mark at the end of that title. 

I remember having the same feeling when I first heard Brad Paisley too. He was associated with all these awesome Dr Z amps and then was playing some of the least inspiring music I've ever heard. Brad probably makes quite a bit of money given his genre though. 

imalrightjack

HarrySeven said:

Jack_ said:

Guy playing blues 50 years after its peak in "not making any money" shocker.

Indeed. Never heard of him. Managed to last 30 seconds on Youtube. Reminded me how much I f*cking hate Blues.

Whether @HarrySeven is joking or not, I managed about five seconds of the clip above and felt the same.

I get where he's coming from.  His post is, to me, more about the perception that he's made it.

Hats off to him for being honest. We live in a society where it's okay for us all to let off steam largely anonymously on forums like this but, because he says it as himself, he's a whining tosser.

It does reinforce what I've said numerous times (in a bid to make myself feel better for not pushing myself harder), that I'm glad I didn't 'make it' as a musician. I suspect I'd be a drink/drug casualty or dead.

SNAKEBITE

Never heard of him, but I think it took a fair amount of balls to post something like that and hope to have it taken in the way it was meant.

It just shows that (as if we didn't know) talent isn't the thing that that gets you noticed, it's the being in the right place at the right time with a manager who knows they can make a lot of money from you.

Rox

Okay just tried to listen.  Have to agree with some of the other esteemed Fretboard members about it.  I'm afraid constipated-face blues widdling has never been my thing.

CHRISB50

Rox said:

Isn't being penniless and underappreciated the r'aison d'etre of the blues?

Yeah, and I bet his dog hasn't died yet either.