Josh Smith - a great honest post

Exorcist

So he doesn't have to get up at 6:00am every day like most of us and go work at a job that he really couldn't give a shit about. He spend the whole year building a studio in his house, or he would have gone crazy. When he does make his money, he does it doing something he loves (playing guitar, how HE wants to play it, not even sessioning). Well, my heart bleeds. Poor sod.

CHRISB50

stickyfiddle said:

I'm another who hasn't heard of the guy. 

Has he got any good songs? He might be an amazing guitar player (and is very likely a god bit better than me) but unless he's got songs people want to put on repeat he's not going to get big enough to make serious money. It's the same for everyone. The reason Ed Sheeran is huge is his songs. Same for Coldplay, same for U2, same for every other great artist who has had more than one proper hit album. Guitar playing alone is not enough, because normal people won't care. 

This too!

Rox

CHRISB50 said:

Rox said:

Isn't being penniless and underappreciated the r'aison d'etre of the blues?

Yeah, and I bet his dog hasn't died yet either.

No, but Ken Dodd's dad's dog's dead.

cpcompany

Just had a listen to the clip on this thread and another called What We Need. Frankly his music is as forgettable as it gets. I can't imagine anyone making much of a living with what I consider music that is average at best and also has been done to death.

Philly_Q

Just watched a bit of that clip with JoBo.  I think I recognise him now, I saw him on some other YouTube clip with 4 or 5 other blues guitarists all taking solos (surprisingly enough...).  Actually it's his guitar which looks familiar, more than him.

rico

I though Josh Smith was the dodgy guy from JHS pedals. Honestly.

digitalscream

It astonishes me that people continue to be surprised about this. It's pretty much a well-established fact that if you want to make a living with music these days, you need as many income streams as possible to cover the times when one or two aren't performing for you.

For most, that means session work, teaching, depping, function bands etc in addition to the "fun stuff"...even something from another industry (I know a lot of session players who supplement their income with contract development work, for example). To say "Nah, I'm going to stay true to myself and only do my original material" is essentially deliberately crippling your own income; it's not remotely surprising that somebody doing such a thing ends up unable to balance the books.

peteri

I wonder what he's really saying in this post.

I love blues guitar, but honestly never listen to Josh - I don't care for JoBo studio albums either to be honest (like the live stuff, what a tone!). I've tried with Josh, really tried - but it's just too 'nice'.

I find it very hard to not take this as a little sour grapes - he hangs out with JoBo quite a lot on line (you see him in the same content I mean, not starting a rumour!) - JoBo has found a rich seam and apparently is doing pretty well at it, Josh apparently isn't.

The fact he's not making enough money at it is his choice surely? Meaning he's chosen a career which for his particular circumstances he's not quite able to make a living at, so what? I tried working in recording studios 15 years ago, made some money, but not enough to make me change from a much more lucrative (but boring) IT job - that was my choice to chase the ££.

Same would happen if I became a professional guitarist, frankly I'd starve!

Now Josh is 100's of times better than me, but that's kind of academic - if he's not able to make money at it, he needs to refocus a little. People still do make careers - Pete Thorn seems happy for example.

I initially read this with sympathy - but the point around cancelling shows jars with me. 'I've never cancelled shows until last year and now the promoter is suing me'.

Well why not? Maybe the promoter lost a ton of money on you, I don't know why he cancelled - but it's a little like saying I never stabbed anyone until I stabbed you - so I'm basically ok? It happened, you cancelled - if you didn't have insurance and the promoter has lost a load of money - why wouldn't he try and recoup this? You would if it were the other way around.

Don't want to come across as a dick, but really - don't get this

Philly_Q

Maybe, unfortunately, that's the new reality of the music "business", that it's now something to be done part time or as a second (or third) job.  Facts must be faced.

I'm thinking about Allan Holdsworth, arguably one of the greatest players of all... whose family apparently had trouble paying for his funeral earlier this year.  

dindude

Some pretty harsh words here, but a lot of it true. I think Josh was basically saying, whether you like blues or not, whether you like him or not, from a guitar playing point of view he is considered to be at the top of the game for that style - plenty of people patting him on the back but that doesn't translate into a fruitful career.

The Alan Holdsworth example is also good. I also get the impression someone like Eric Johnson won't die a rich man.

HarrySeven

imalrightjack said:

HarrySeven said:

Jack_ said:

Guy playing blues 50 years after its peak in "not making any money" shocker.

Indeed. Never heard of him. Managed to last 30 seconds on Youtube. Reminded me how much I f*cking hate Blues.

Whether @HarrySeven is joking or not, I managed about five seconds of the clip above and felt the same.

No, I'm deadly serious.

However, just to clarify...I can't apply the "I hate Blues" statement in some kind of blanket fashion. Adjacent to where I'm sitting are floor-to-ceiling cabinets filled with many thousands of LPs - and there is a decent chunk of Blues/R'n'B/Jazz represented in there. Pulling out a random handful, theres a mix from BB King, Mississipi John Hurt, Lightnin' Hopkins, Blind Willie McTell, Wes Mongomery, Kenny Burrell, Jimmy Reed, Leroy Washington, etc, etc.

What I find extremely challenging is the subsequent (almost-a-century-worth) tedious hawking of tired platitudes*, predictable stylistic structures/progressions, constant unquestioning repetition, and interminable solos, played out by pork-pie hatted "Bluesmen", living the Delta dream in Doncaster (or wherever).
NB. If you are a pork-pie hatted Bluesman from Doncaster, then please accept my apologies - no disrespect intended. The example was for illustrative purposes only.



*Weeell, Ah woke up this mornin' [masturbatory fret doodle, similar to slapping your fretboard with a hot dog sausage] an' mah dawg done be deead [aimless guitar twiddle]

Ah sed...Ah woke up this mornin' [brief fretwank flurry] an' mah dawg done be deead [more dull gitwizard fretwankery]

But as Ah'm livin' in Sheffield [miniscule hammer-on twaddle], Ah'll get an Alpac-uh^ instead." [triumphant fretstorm spunkfest]


^In-house joke for Sheffield locals re. Mayfield Alpaca Animal Park. Sorry.

Sassafras

I was in a music shop and this guy started screaming at me "don't you know who I am?" then he smacked me in the mouth and shouted "I - AM - JOSH - SMITH, that'll help you to remember my name, you snivelling little worm."
Seemed like a nice enough chap.

GuitarZero

If the job isn't paying then maybe it's time to look for something else.  For many years I desperately tried to make a go of my own business, but ultimately the huge amount of hours I was working compared with the relatively low and often spiky revenue stream meant that there were several weeks where I was more or less in the poor house. This obviously brings about higher stress levels as I was constantly worrying about bills that needed to be paid and wondering how I was going to feed my family. Eventually I closed the business and went to work for a company within my chosen field.  I now have a steady income, regular hours and much less stress. Sometimes we have to make difficult choices.

Josh has talent for sure, but if it's not paying, he either needs to find some way of improving that by diversifying as others have stated, or get a new career.  Sounds harsh I know, but try translating it into your own work life, what would you do if your job wasn't paying?

Parker

Exorcist said:

So he doesn't have to get up at 6:00am every day like most of us and go work at a job that he really couldn't give a shit about. He spend the whole year building a studio in his house, or he would have gone crazy. When he does make his money, he does it doing something he loves (playing guitar, how HE wants to play it, not even sessioning). Well, my heart bleeds. Poor sod.

Sounds like the basis of a good blues song....

equalsql

Parker said:

Exorcist said:

So he doesn't have to get up at 6:00am every day like most of us and go work at a job that he really couldn't give a shit about. He spend the whole year building a studio in his house, or he would have gone crazy. When he does make his money, he does it doing something he loves (playing guitar, how HE wants to play it, not even sessioning). Well, my heart bleeds. Poor sod.

Sounds like the basis of a good blues song....

'Woke up this morning, turned on my SSL AWS desk and plugged in the Neumann M149... Oh yeah..'
Don't guite work does it? 

shaunm

I guess with having the last 60 years of popular music to choose from you need more than one stellar attribute in order to make a living. Gone are the days where someone would listen to you just because of your proficiency on your instrument. 

People will always listen to a good song though. 

I remember reading an interview with Nickleback years ago where Chad was talking about learning to shred as a youngster and how it was a pointless talent as nobody would pay to hear him do it. On the other had he could retire after writing "how you remind me". 

Strat54

Being a 'great' player isn't enough. I think he needs some great songs too and I don't hear any from Josh. You can't expect to cater for a minority and make good money these days. He needs some alternative income,you get guys like Greg Koch who earn from teaching, educational videos and books. There's plenty of options for a versatile player in film and TV too.
 Can you reasonably expect to make a good living driving half way round the world to play for thirty middle aged men in a club each night? That just seems an expensive indulgence to me. You get players like Dave Kilminster (Roger Waters), Scott McKeon (Tom Jones), Guthrie Govan( Hans Zimmer), David Grissom (Mellencamp,Dixie Chicks) who make good money playing with big names so that they can indulge and make their own music, that's one way to do it and it would be my method of choice.
I think there's a lot of players who look at JoBo and think they should be able to succeed too.....but they won't because they don't have guys with the business acumen  of Roy Weisman and Kevin Shirley behind them, he was on his ass till he met them. Love or loathe him he has a bigger personality than Josh too, the fact that he riles so many people tell me he's doing something right too! 
I see Matt Schofield chipped in and declared he was in the same penniless boat too. No house, no car he said and makes as little as $50 from a gig....but again, great player...not so great a singer and just an average songwriter playing the blues. They need to have a rethink.

hywelg

I don't quite understand what he's trying to elicit from this post either but he's a really good player and will earn a decent living doing what he enjoys, which is something all of us would aspire to I'm sure.

Matt Schofield isn't making a bad living out of what he does I think, but he's had to work very very hard at it. The first time I saw him, at The Running Horse in Nottingham, back in 2005 or so, there were about a dozen people in the audience. He's now drawing decent crowds at festivals and probably getting reasonably well paid.Chatting to him on a number of occasions, his philosphy is that 'Matt Schofield' is his day job. All the logistics of recording, gigging, flights, gear transport, etc are the day job, and that allows him the pleasure of the thing he loves doing, playing in front of a live audience. Now Matt has always had a band and the Trio were the foundation from which his career was launched, and that band featured on all the albums Matt recorded. His album sales have supported his career and I'd guess made him financially sound.

Financially asture? Probably. Destined for success maybe not, but as a guitarist watching him on the very first occasion I knew he was something very special. I'm glad he's made it.

Teetonetal

The trouble with trying to make money from original music is that you cannot force people to like you. I guess, despite his talent he is missing something that JoBo found. 

Signature cuff-links perhaps? No idea, but JoBo has built a brand, he plays as a side man too (I saw him playing with Beth Heart) as @digitalscream said, you need a lot of revenue streams.

I don't know how successful Pete Thorn actually is, but he has Youtube demos, Tim And Pete Guitar show, writes for premier guitar, tours, has his own album etc, etc, etc.

shaunm

hywelg said:

I don't quite understand what he's trying to elicit from this post either but he's a really good player and will earn a decent living doing what he enjoys, which is something all of us would aspire to I'm sure.

Matt Schofield isn't making a bad living out of what he does I think, but he's had to work very very hard at it. The first time I saw him, at The Running Horse in Nottingham, back in 2005 or so, there were about a dozen people in the audience. He's now drawing decent crowds at festivals and probably getting reasonably well paid.Chatting to him on a number of occasions, his philosphy is that 'Matt Schofield' is his day job. All the logistics of recording, gigging, flights, gear transport, etc are the day job, and that allows him the pleasure of the thing he loves doing, playing in front of a live audience. Now Matt has always had a band and the Trio were the foundation from which his career was launched, and that band featured on all the albums Matt recorded. His album sales have supported his career and I'd guess made him financially sound.

Financially asture? Probably. Destined for success maybe not, but as a guitarist watching him on the very first occasion I knew he was something very special. I'm glad he's made it.

Matt has joined in on the facebook post saying that he makes as little as $50 from some gigs and that he does not know how this life will pay for itself in later life. 40 with no home, no car - it does not sound like he is financially sound.