Body wood affects tone

NelsonP

Three-ColourSunburst said:

the high impedance of the bridge / body interface of an electric guitar means only a small amount of energy will be transmitted to the body by the string and visa versa.

High relative to what? There's definitely some energy transfer and some resonance created by that.

Does the impedance vary with a fixed tailpiece vs floating trem etc? Would that make any difference to the tone?

lysander

@Three-ColourSunburst just what the hell are you talking about ?
When did crunchman imply that he didn't know about mechanical impedance ?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but based on your posts I would guess that you are neither very educated, nor have a successful job - or a job at all more realistically - nor any friends. And you probably don't play the guitar either.

I understand you're desperate for attention, but you may find that *not* insulting everyone that disagrees with you and selectively quoting them would help you with all the above.

Three-ColourSunburst

Anyhow, after all the fun of trying to score points off each other. Why can't we just focus on the topic in hand and evaluate the relevance or otherwise of the material I have found on this topic? I don't about everyone else, but I would really like to get to understand the topic properly.

Ravenous, yes, lots of this is new to me, and I would have hoped that those with more knowledge might have commented on those papers I have found in a more constructive way than has been the general case so far. You seem to know what you are talking about, so what are your views on the significance of mechanical impedance to the 'tone wood' debate? Do you see any merit in anything I have said, and if not, why not? Are those authors wrong in suggesting that the high impedance of the bridge / body interface in a solid body electric guitar is likely to limit any interaction between string and body wood?

Thanks!

NelsonP

Gassage said:

Well, it's not often I say this, but fuck this thread....

I need to go and play my non resonant waste of money strat.

And check the Met Office reports for Tarporley. Hurricane Homer looks set for the night.

LOL'd

Gassage

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Anyhow, after all the fun of trying to score points off each other. Why can't we just focus on the topic in hand and evaluate the relevance or otherwise of the material I have found on this topic

Because you're talking complete bollocks.

NelsonP

Gassage said:

Because you're talking complete bollocks.

Have another LOL

Three-ColourSunburst

impmann said:

I quote... "no considerable energy is transferred from the string to the body". If you genuinely believe that then you are a fool.

Seeing that quote came straight from the academic paper below, I see little reason to doubt it. Well, less reason than I have to doubt the claims that 'tone wood' can only be understood by sniffing it and regarding it as being something 'spiritual' and beyond the realms of science.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/dav/aaua/1999/00000085/00000001/art00020

EricTheWeary

Lescaster said:

I just want you all to know that I am so, so sorry.

Given a LOL buy a virtual hug and hot beverage would have been better. I bet when you log on here and look at your notifications you shed a little tear now.

Of course, this isn't helping as it's another of the f*****s. 

not_the_dj

EricTheWeary said:

Lescaster said:

I just want you all to know that I am so, so sorry.

Given a LOL buy a virtual hug and hot beverage would have been better. I bet when you log on here and look at your notifications you shed a little tear now.

Of course, this isn't helping as it's another of the f*****s. 

I do wish there was a way of unsubscribing from your own threads....I regret starting the "show us your pedalboard" thread....sure it's a nice thread and great to see everyone's pedals...but blimey the notifications are a pain.

NelsonP

Lescaster said:

I just want you all to know that I am so, so sorry.

It's not your fault.

Johan Segeborn has too much time on his hands. He started it. He should finish it by completing his PhD in 'the tonal impact of various electric guitar construction methods'. He's written papers on loads of other stuff.

NelsonP

Wait - this academic paper says that the (fingerboard) wood doesn't make much difference
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275241621_Modal_parameter_variability_in_industrial_electric_guitar_making_Manufacturing_process_wood_variability_and_lutherie_decisions

....but this one suggests the wood used does make a difference:
"When playing an electric guitar unplugged the tonal qualities of the wood are apparent as the ears perceive what the microphone “hears”."
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwibv9P1ja_WAhXFORoKHcAZCX0QFggrMAA&url=http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGFsK_bbsF1xJ6wHvCZ3O9kH1vLXg

...and this one:
This study examined the timbre of tones produced by two guitars of identical
construction but different woods, maple and mahogany. The timbres were compared by
analyzing the differences in the amplitudes of harmonics produced by each wood. It was found
that the maple guitar had more harmonics for the low E string, the mahogany had more
harmonics for the D string, and neither guitar clearly had more harmonics overall for the high E.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjysKzYj6_WAhXEPxoKHXICDHkQFghZMAk&url=http://faculty.tamuc.edu/cbertulani/cab/papers/SelfThesis.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEtAqg-te5IoO5RneW0OlrkCe03NA

Now I'm really confused. Does it make a difference or not?

Three-ColourSunburst

MartinB said:

Dude, a few posts ago you thought that a guitarist could play notes faster than the sound from their amplifier could reach them.  The lack of self-awareness is startling, and I'm still not sure if this thread is a wind-up. 

Jesus, I was just trying to throw in an obvious joke to try and keep things lighthearted and keep this thread from becoming a total lynch mob.

Perhaps those who have nothing better to say than 'You are talking bollocks' would be far happier if they didn't even look at the thread anymore and instead watched Chapper's 'proof' of tone wood video or something, if that brings them comfort.

I think this is a fascinating topic and I have really tried to find some credible research that might throw light on it. If this has challenged some peoples' faith in the magic of 'tone wood', tough, but I am just reporting - as best I can - on what I have found.

One way or another I have found this whole discussion to be enlightening, although I think I may have learned more about the way faith and magical thinking are impervious to reason (and about the mob-rule mentality of forums) than the definitive answer to the 'tone wood' debate. I was hoping that some with real expertise would comment on the papers I found. I guess that was too much to hope for!

Now, does anyone have anything constructive to add to the debate?

Cheers!

dbphoto

Well this has all been rather entertaining so far!

I'm now wondering if I have missed out having spent the last 25 years buying guitars based on how they look and feel, and then just getting on and playing the damn things?

OilCityPickups

dbphoto said:

Well this has all been rather entertaining so far!

I'm now wondering if I have missed out having spent the last 25 years buying guitars based on how they look and feel, and then just getting on and playing the damn things?

Have a wisdom

richardhomer

Back home now. Dull still but no longer raining....

Roland

That paint hasn't dried yet either

Ravenous

NelsonP said:

....but this one suggests the wood used does make a difference:
"When playing an electric guitar unplugged the tonal qualities of the wood are apparent as the ears perceive what the microphone “hears”."
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwibv9P1ja_WAhXFORoKHcAZCX0QFggrMAA&url=http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGFsK_bbsF1xJ6wHvCZ3O9kH1vLXg

Funnily enough that one came up the other day and 3sc seemed to think it proved his point at the time.  (Whatever his point was on that day.)

NelsonP

Ravenous said:

Funnily enough that one came up the other day and 3sc seemed to think it proved his point at the time.  (Whatever his point was on that day.)

...which is probably because, that same study also said, "Analysis of the data shows that in an electric guitar the body wood type does not contribute significantly to the sound of the amplified instrument."

Which is a little misleading as they never actually amplified it. What the study actually appears to say is that a microphone was able to pick up differences in the harmonic response. But a pickup wasn't. And it didn't propose any hypothesis about why that might be.

DaevidJ

So by the logic displayed here if you hold the guitar upright by the upper horn and play an open e then you should feel no vibration through the body... However this is not the case...

Lescaster

EricTheWeary said:

Lescaster said:

I just want you all to know that I am so, so sorry.

Given a LOL buy a virtual hug and hot beverage would have been better. I bet when you log on here and look at your notifications you shed a little tear now.

Of course, this isn't helping as it's another of the f*****s. 

Thanks, I do. I feel like this post should now be stickied in a kind of 'there be beasties here' seen on old maps kind of way.