Body wood affects tone

Three-ColourSunburst

NelsonP said:

Wait - this academic paper says that the wood does make a difference
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/275241621_Modal_parameter_variability_in_industrial_electric_guitar_making_Manufacturing_process_wood_variability_and_lutherie_decisions

....and this one
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwibv9P1ja_WAhXFORoKHcAZCX0QFggrMAA&url=http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGFsK_bbsF1xJ6wHvCZ3O9kH1vLXg

...and this one
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjysKzYj6_WAhXEPxoKHXICDHkQFghZMAk&url=http://faculty.tamuc.edu/cbertulani/cab/papers/SelfThesis.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEtAqg-te5IoO5RneW0OlrkCe03NA

Now I'm really confused. Does it make a difference or not?

Yes, I have seen those. A few comments.

1) 'Modal parameter variability in industrial electric guitar making: Manufacturing process, wood variability, and lutherie decisions'

This paper is a little disingenuous in its research review in the way it refers to 'timbre'. For example, the papers of Fleischer (which I have already linked to) did not look at the way different woods supposedly determine the general timbre of the instrument, but the way high neck conductance creates 'flat spots', and the role harmonics play in increading the decay rate for certain fretted positions.  The paper by Arthur Patéa) et al. had a similar focus and noted that 'coupling effects arise only in case of coincidence between the string playing frequencies and the structure modal frequencies'. If anything this paper undermines the 'tone wood' hypothesis, given that 'coupling' is not something that affects all notes, and when it does, flat spots are the usual result.

As to the paper itself, it did not look at any differences in sound through the pickups that might arise as a result of different body woods. Rather it took complete instruments, weighed them and then recording the way they resonated when tapped with a hammer. They then suggest that differences in modal frequency and damping ratio found might affect the sound, but this was not tested. They also acknowledge that 'the string/structure coupling occurs mainly on the neck' (as Fleischer notes) which itself undermines the suggestion that there is a strong, direct coupling between the strings and body

2) The Effect of Wood on Electric Guitar Timbre

This is a students Honors Thesis, so not a pukka academic paper.  Given this the rigour of its methods is not likely to be comparable with the paper I cited. Nonetheless it's main conclusion is that, whilst different woods might make a guitar sound different when played acoustically, such differences are not apparent when one considers the signal generated through the pickups. I.e despite some differences in the wave forms noted, the signals through the pickups are much closer for each type of wood than those picked up by an acoustic microphone. As such, on balance it undermines, rather than supports the 'tone wood' hypothesis.

Conclusion.

 Through the course of this research it seems that there is proof to the statement made by Halliday in that the body of an electric guitar does not have resonance. Of course this is both correct and incorrect. From the stand point of the electric guitar’s purpose of being amplified the statement is correct. However, the guitar body does in fact resonate and when it is not plugged in, the body is noticed to color the sound. This observation explains why some would say they can hear a difference in the wood. When playing an electric guitar unplugged the tonal qualities of the wood are apparent as the ears perceive what the microphone “hears”. These perceptible variations however, appear to get lost when the volume of the amplified signal takes over.

3) The Effect of Wood on Electric Guitar Timbre

Another student's honours thesis, so again not a pukka academic paper.

The methodology may well have being lacking as the results were very inconsistent. However overall the study does not support the 'tone wood' hypothesis. The summary pretty much speaks for itself.

The timbres were compared by analyzing the differences in the amplitudes of harmonics produced by each wood. It was found that the maple guitar had more harmonics for the low E string, the mahogany had more harmonics for the D string, and neither guitar clearly had more harmonics overall for the high E. On average, across all three strings tested, neither guitar ended up being consistently brighter or warmer than the other; rather, the difference in timbre for each guitar varied depending on which string was being analyzed.

NelsonP

So where are the pukka, peer reviewed post grad studies? And what do they conclude? Do any of them look at the guitar/speaker interaction?

Gassage

bacchanalian

When I was a young lad my mate and I used to jam at his house. We could not afford amplifiers so we would have touched the end of our guitars against the biggest windows in his house. A separate window each. The vibrations through the headstock were amplified by the sympathetic vibrations of the large panes of glass. His alder bodied strat sounded different to my ash bodied strat. That is a true story from less privileged times.  So no amps, effects cables or even electricity and the two guitars sounded different. 

richardhomer

Just had a very agreeable piece of salmon, a jacket potato and broccoli. All good heathy stuff.

Going start the ironing now....

guitars4you

I must admit @Three-ColourSunburst that I do admire your persistence - Many would have long gone by now - I have to admit that I've not read it all now, as it has started to get to long and I also have to admit that I'm not an academic, so many times a long report is a turn off for me and certain parts and words I don't understand - Maybe I'm a grumpy old git who won't change opinions anyway and/or maybe I believe in what my ears have told me for so long and with that in mind I don't really care about the scientific side - I don't know why or how my car works either, but I know I can drive it

Some of this reminds me of a story that Ron Dennis use to tell about Senna when they were both at McClaren - Apparently Senna had a good mechanical brain and understanding, as well as been a great driver and this helped them deliver a scientific process into a practical hands on performance - But the story concerns a Saturday and qualifying and Senna stating that on a certain corner, at a certain speed and rpm, there was a 'flat spot' - he felt it via the throttle and heard it - All the mechanical data did not pick it up and all the telepathy and system analysis showed no issues - So the night before the Grand Prix, R Dennis either had to back Senna or the mechanics, as both insisted they were right - So when they were all about to lock up for the night, Dennis insisted the mechanics stripped down the car and have a look and sure enough they found a mechanical issue - some flat spot or something and I'm sorry I can't recall what it was - But it showed that Senna could feel and hear what the electronic data could not detect and Dennis was right to back him

NelsonP

richardhomer said:

All good heathy stuff.

How do you know?

richardhomer

NelsonP said:

richardhomer said:

All good heathy stuff.

How do you know?

There's a lot of scientific evidence about oily fish, fresh veg, etc. And as it's not as enjoyable as burger and chips, it must be good for me....

Gassage

One of the reasons I've preferred Cornish pedals in the past is the extra size of the boxes allow more natural resonance and reverb from the larger enclosures.

NelsonP

richardhomer said:

NelsonP said:

richardhomer said:

All good heathy stuff.

How do you know?

 And as it's not as enjoyable as burger and chips, it must be good for me....

Good point

guitars4you

Gassage said:

One of the reasons I've preferred Cornish pedals in the past is the extra size of the boxes allow more natural resonance and reverb from the larger enclosures.

I just prefer a good extra size Cornish Pastie 

Gassage

Lads, we're in danger of de-railing the thread.

octatonic

richardhomer

I hate ironing shirts most. Fiddly and tedious....

bacchanalian

richardhomer said:

I hate ironing shirts most. Fiddly and tedious....

I agree about shirts. I have tried several different materials and they are all the same, a balls to iron.

I found a research paper that says Monday is the worst of all the days for ironing. You are doing it wrong.

fretfinder

richardhomer said:

I hate ironing shirts most. Fiddly and tedious....

Yes but you have to do it properly and no one irons one's own shirts properly like oneself does!

Sassafras

guitars4you said:

I must admit @Three-ColourSunburst that I do admire your persistence - Many would have long gone by now - I have to admit that I've not read it all now, as it has started to get to long and I also have to admit that I'm not an academic, so many times a long report is a turn off for me and certain parts and words I don't understand - Maybe I'm a grumpy old git who won't change opinions anyway and/or maybe I believe in what my ears have told me for so long and with that in mind I don't really care about the scientific side - I don't know why or how my car works either, but I know I can drive it

Some of this reminds me of a story that Ron Dennis use to tell about Senna when they were both at McClaren - Apparently Senna had a good mechanical brain and understanding, as well as been a great driver and this helped them deliver a scientific process into a practical hands on performance - But the story concerns a Saturday and qualifying and Senna stating that on a certain corner, at a certain speed and rpm, there was a 'flat spot' - he felt it via the throttle and heard it - All the mechanical data did not pick it up and all the telepathy and system analysis showed no issues - So the night before the Grand Prix, R Dennis either had to back Senna or the mechanics, as both insisted they were right - So when they were all about to lock up for the night, Dennis insisted the mechanics stripped down the car and have a look and sure enough they found a mechanical issue - some flat spot or something and I'm sorry I can't recall what it was - But it showed that Senna could feel and hear what the electronic data could not detect and Dennis was right to back him

He wouldn't have been able to identify the problem if the engine had been made of maple or mahogany.

guitars4you

bacchanalian said:

richardhomer said:

I hate ironing shirts most. Fiddly and tedious....

I agree about shirts. I have tried several different materials and they are all the same, a balls to iron.

I found a research paper that says Monday is the worst of all the days for ironing. You are doing it wrong.

I believe it is on record that if it is a Stormy Monday then Tuesday's just as bad

Sassafras

bacchanalian said:

richardhomer said:

I hate ironing shirts most. Fiddly and tedious....

I agree about shirts. I have tried several different materials and they are all the same, a balls to iron.

I found a research paper that says Monday is the worst of all the days for ironing. You are doing it wrong.

Oh yes, it was conducted by Professor Geldof from the Institute of Boomtown Rats. Research you can trust.

richardhomer

According to the theme song for Happy Days, Sir Bob is wrong....