Fender amps why the love??

professorben

Bucket said:

professorben said:

Here you go @Gassage ;;
A band I really like, guitarist uses a vintage 70's HiWatt head set Clean with lots of pedals. 

Just like Davy G 

(Moon Tooth)

Had never heard of these before but now I'm checking them out - enjoying it. Thanks!

Singer's voice is the only thing I'm not sure about...

It's definitely a jarring sound to start if you are expecting a screamer. 

I like to think that this would be the norm if heavy bands of the 80's had taken after Paul Rogers of Free instead of Robert Plant. 

ICBM

bbill335 said:

I think the 100w Bassman head is very similar to the Sunn Model T (the doom/stoner amp that isn't vintage orange/matamp)

No, not really. The Model T is more closely related to an Orange OR120 in terms of its tone stack and general circuit layout, although the phase inverter is more like a Bassman.

The 100W Bassman (and Bassman 50, 70, 135 etc, and all earlier head versions) is nothing at all like the tweed Bassman either - pretty much only the name and the power valve type is the same!

earwighoney

bbill335 said:

Teetonetal said:

I must say, I've never tried a cranked Princeton, Really must.
I think though that Fender and Metal / hard Rock do not really marry up in my head. I think of fender as Clean, pedal platform and Blues.

I think the 100w Bassman head is very similar to the Sunn Model T (the doom/stoner amp that isn't vintage orange/matamp)

Here's a 1965 Bassman being used to play some Doom.  

AndyJP

professorben said:

bacchanalian said:

Only watch this if you had made preparations to shit your pants.

In no way could I ever play like that. 
But was kinda sloppy in places. 

Hes no Johnny Hiland/Brent Mason etc. 

Superb!

Bucket

professorben said:

It's definitely a jarring sound to start if you are expecting a screamer. 

I like to think that this would be the norm if heavy bands of the 80's had taken after Paul Rogers of Free instead of Robert Plant. 

Oh it's not that, it's just the actual voice... sometimes sounds like his pitching is a bit off.

Exorcist

I think its about the way you play too - I grew up in heavy bands, metal, hardcore and my style evolved around that tight 'thunk' bottom end, using my picking hand palm to change the dynamics of the low strings, and fretting hand to dampen the higher strings when needed. Its a shit explanation, but Ben might get what I mean, I still love and play that style, but also moved into the 'fender clean' style amps, which takes a different style of playing, you just can't thrash out the 'brutez' and fast legato runs like you can with a marshall/mesa style amp, you have to adapt to the dynamics of the amp - you literally have to pick differently, and all the little nuances of how you play (that you never even thought about) have to change somewhat.. In my humble opinion of course.

Personally, although there was a time you wouldn't have caught me dead with a fender guitar OR amp, I now love adding that style and sound to my playing. Like most of the peeps here, I'm a guitar geek, and I want to have the MOST options and styles available to me, I love pedals for gain, never used to - but I can get a whole bunch of different gain types with one amp and a pedal board, including the amp gain if its a channel switcher, for me thats great!! I haven't worked my way up to Gretches yet - and could ask a similar question to yours about them, but I bet I'll add one to the collection one day, just for yet another flavor

However, if you just don't like the sound of them, well there's nothing wrong with that.

Gassage

Exorcist said:

I think its about the way you play too - I grew up in heavy bands, metal, hardcore and my style evolved around that tight 'thunk' bottom end, using my picking hand palm to change the dynamics of the low strings, and fretting hand to dampen the higher strings when needed. Its a shit explanation, but Ben might get what I mean, I still love and play that style, but also moved into the 'fender clean' style amps, which takes a different style of playing, you just can't thrash out the 'brutez' and fast legato runs like you can with a marshall/mesa style amp, you have to adapt to the dynamics of the amp - you literally have to pick differently, and all the little nuances of how you play (that you never even thought about) have to change somewhat.. In my humble opinion of course.

Personally, although there was a time you wouldn't have caught me dead with a fender guitar OR amp, I now love adding that style and sound to my playing. Like most of the peeps here, I'm a guitar geek, and I want to have the MOST options and styles available to me, I love pedals for gain, never used to - but I can get a whole bunch of different gain types with one amp and a pedal board, including the amp gain if its a channel switcher, for me thats great!! I haven't worked my way up to Gretches yet - and could ask a similar question to yours about them, but I bet I'll add one to the collection one day, just for yet another flavor

However, if you just don't like the sound of them, well there's nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely hit it out of the park there.

professorben

Exorcist said:

I think its about the way you play too - I grew up in heavy bands, metal, hardcore and my style evolved around that tight 'thunk' bottom end, using my picking hand palm to change the dynamics of the low strings, and fretting hand to dampen the higher strings when needed. Its a shit explanation, but Ben might get what I mean, I still love and play that style, but also moved into the 'fender clean' style amps, which takes a different style of playing, you just can't thrash out the 'brutez' and fast legato runs like you can with a marshall/mesa style amp, you have to adapt to the dynamics of the amp - you literally have to pick differently, and all the little nuances of how you play (that you never even thought about) have to change somewhat.. In my humble opinion of course.

Personally, although there was a time you wouldn't have caught me dead with a fender guitar OR amp, I now love adding that style and sound to my playing. Like most of the peeps here, I'm a guitar geek, and I want to have the MOST options and styles available to me, I love pedals for gain, never used to - but I can get a whole bunch of different gain types with one amp and a pedal board, including the amp gain if its a channel switcher, for me thats great!! I haven't worked my way up to Gretches yet - and could ask a similar question to yours about them, but I bet I'll add one to the collection one day, just for yet another flavor

However, if you just don't like the sound of them, well there's nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely nailed it dude. 

mattdavis

With amps that I get on with, and amps I don't get on with, it always seems to come down to the natural compression that the amp (and cab/combo) has. I was conditioned by playing Marshalls to expect a certain degree of compression ( is this something to do with 'sag'? I have no idea about the technicalities...) so found some fender amps too 'spiky' and brittle feeling- basically, I'm too sloppy a player and those deficiencies were accentuated.
Playing smaller wattage fender amps where they are driving harder negated some of this effect - now, dare I say it, I'm enjoying my little Champ's drive more than my JCM 800 scream, and using pedals a bit more to take thinks up a notch. I guess perception of amps changes with time, playing style and ability, and what you are trying to achieve. One of each is probably the way ahead..

AlexC

Great thread. Lots of interesting stuff here, a helluva lot I never knew. Obviously the sound a player gets and how they get it is determined by two factors - personal choice obviously and budget.  Are any of us lucky enough to just own and use all the gear we'd love to have?! There could be an argument made that - however good Fender are (amps and guitars) - there is a mark up for that 'legendary' name.
Also, a little naive left-field theory of mine - and I'm happy to be shot down in flames here - is that Fender amps work great with Fender guitars. No denying those clean, single coil sounds are terrific. But for heavier humbucker sounds I would just choose another make of amp. (Yes - I am aware of the many classic albums which marry a Gibson guitar with a Fender amp!)
I use Peavey with both single coil and buckers - but I have played Fender amps. Although admittedly not for many years now.

menamestom

professorben said:

ThorpyFX said:

The princeton is a thing of absolute genius. love that amp. possibly one of the most incredible classic guitar sounds available.... and people like @RiftAmps add their special sauce to the design with such skill that the things become heavenly.

I thought it sounded ok with a BD-2w in the front, I'll admit it's the best sound I've had out of a Fender but I could see it absolutely disappearing in a band mix, not enough mids. 

Yes they can, especially in a 2 guitar band.  Mine  technically has the volume with a bigger OT and efficient speaker but the lack of mids means it disappears a bit when the sonic space isn’t there.  That’s why people use tubescreamers I suppose.   But to be fair 15 watt 1x10 combos are rarely ideal in a 2 guitar band.

One trick you can do to up the mids is pull the treble and bass down.

Exorcist

professorben said:

Exorcist said:

I think its about the way you play too - I grew up in heavy bands, metal, hardcore and my style evolved around that tight 'thunk' bottom end, using my picking hand palm to change the dynamics of the low strings, and fretting hand to dampen the higher strings when needed. Its a shit explanation, but Ben might get what I mean, I still love and play that style, but also moved into the 'fender clean' style amps, which takes a different style of playing, you just can't thrash out the 'brutez' and fast legato runs like you can with a marshall/mesa style amp, you have to adapt to the dynamics of the amp - you literally have to pick differently, and all the little nuances of how you play (that you never even thought about) have to change somewhat.. In my humble opinion of course.

Personally, although there was a time you wouldn't have caught me dead with a fender guitar OR amp, I now love adding that style and sound to my playing. Like most of the peeps here, I'm a guitar geek, and I want to have the MOST options and styles available to me, I love pedals for gain, never used to - but I can get a whole bunch of different gain types with one amp and a pedal board, including the amp gain if its a channel switcher, for me thats great!! I haven't worked my way up to Gretches yet - and could ask a similar question to yours about them, but I bet I'll add one to the collection one day, just for yet another flavor

However, if you just don't like the sound of them, well there's nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely nailed it dude. 

:-) Its also funny when a tele/tweed kinda chap comes and tries a few andy timmons(?) style riffs on a chunked up 5150/Mesa, totally out of his comfort zone, it sounds fucking terrible lol

professorben

Exorcist said:

professorben said:

Exorcist said:

I think its about the way you play too - I grew up in heavy bands, metal, hardcore and my style evolved around that tight 'thunk' bottom end, using my picking hand palm to change the dynamics of the low strings, and fretting hand to dampen the higher strings when needed. Its a shit explanation, but Ben might get what I mean, I still love and play that style, but also moved into the 'fender clean' style amps, which takes a different style of playing, you just can't thrash out the 'brutez' and fast legato runs like you can with a marshall/mesa style amp, you have to adapt to the dynamics of the amp - you literally have to pick differently, and all the little nuances of how you play (that you never even thought about) have to change somewhat.. In my humble opinion of course.

Personally, although there was a time you wouldn't have caught me dead with a fender guitar OR amp, I now love adding that style and sound to my playing. Like most of the peeps here, I'm a guitar geek, and I want to have the MOST options and styles available to me, I love pedals for gain, never used to - but I can get a whole bunch of different gain types with one amp and a pedal board, including the amp gain if its a channel switcher, for me thats great!! I haven't worked my way up to Gretches yet - and could ask a similar question to yours about them, but I bet I'll add one to the collection one day, just for yet another flavor

However, if you just don't like the sound of them, well there's nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely nailed it dude. 

:-) Its also funny when a tele/tweed kinda chap comes and tries a few andy timmons(?) style riffs on a chunked up 5150/Mesa, totally out of his comfort zone, it sounds fucking terrible lol

Although I think Timmons is no stranger to Mesa or high gain, I agree it's amusing watching a 'edge of breakup' player trying to control a metal style set up. 


HOOOOWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!

  

cruxiform

Steve Jones playing through a maxxed-out Fender Twin results in the best tone ever. That's enough for me.

timmysoft

Clean is for pisswimps.

play with all the gain and stop trying to fool yourselves that clean is classier.

clean tones are ballbag, all the gains are king. Do you want to be a ballbag or a king? 

professorben

timmysoft said:

Clean is for pisswimps.

play with all the gain and stop trying to fool yourselves that clean is classier.

clean tones are ballbag, all the gains are king. Do you want to be a ballbag or a king? 

The king of ballbags???

mattdavis

How aboutimmysoft said:

Clean is for pisswimps.

play with all the gain and stop trying to fool yourselves that clean is classier.

clean tones are ballbag, all the gains are king. Do you want to be a ballbag or a king? 

Where does crunch fit in to this scrotal hierarchy? What if like crunch?

professorben

mattdavis said:

How aboutimmysoft said:

Clean is for pisswimps.

play with all the gain and stop trying to fool yourselves that clean is classier.

clean tones are ballbag, all the gains are king. Do you want to be a ballbag or a king? 

Where does crunch fit in to this scrotal hierarchy? What if like crunch?

Ah now...... crunch is a subjective term. 

Unlike my metal brethren I refer to crunch as that SRV up to JCM800 level of dirt. 

a lot will call full on rectifier red channel crunch. 

To me thats just high gain. 

Either way the level of crunch would be the canine Choad area, as it separates the Ass from the Dogs Bollocks. 

mattdavis

So crunch is more of a perineal range of gain? Gotcha.

professorben

mattdavis said:

So crunch is more of a perineal range of gain? Gotcha.

Indeed. 
Oft under appreciated but extremely sensitive.