The Ashes Winter 2017/18 Thread

guitars4you

Shows what a good mind set the Ausies have - nearly batted out of the 1st innings but a great captains innings with a good tail saved the day - compare that with our 1st innings and the last 4-5 wickets - then with barely  a lead they take 2 wickets with an hostile approach - credit to them - We now need a good day tomorrow and a strong innings from Joe with support down to 10/11 and see what we can produce as a lead to either draw, or better still win - Unlikely to be a draw, but won't be a bad result if it is

Legionreturns

Yeah Cook not had a good test... 9 runs in two innings. Don't want to see his head drop, we need him firing if we're going to get anything out of this series

axisus

Cook definitely disappointing but I'm not gonna pan him like I might have in the past. The match isn't finished and it's a long series. Come on England!

RandallFlagg

Cook won't be phased, he's been through worse as a Captain and will play the next test as though this didn't happen. It's all down to Root to steady the ship now. We need 250 2nd innings lead to stand a whiff of a chance. I think we'll be short, lucky to get 150

RandallFlagg

Sunday 05:00am. Well there it is, Aus have a day and a session to get 170, they'll be in the dressing room just after lunch tomorrow. England have only successfully defended a lead of 170 3 times against Australia and all 3 times were at home.

A decent innings from Cook would have made all the difference.

Legionreturns

Game over... That's a shambles. Turning a close game into an annihilation. 

axisus

OK, now it really is disappointing. Oh well, I've had decades of getting used to this sort of thing.

Heartfeltdawn

Don't get down too quickly. Remember we got hammered in the 1st Test in 2005 with McGrath blitzing us...

How we react at Adelaide is now vital. Jake Ball has had enough chances at international level to stake a claim and hasn't taken them. We've played this Test with two on song bowlers, a spinner who isn't fully Fitz and two seamers who have bowled poorly. Plunkett not being selected look poor a month ago. Overton straight in at Adelaide, consider Crane if Moeen ain't right.

And please let Jimmy be fit.

RandallFlagg

Legionreturns said:

Game over... That's a shambles. Turning a close game into an annihilation. 

The Gabbatoir!

RandallFlagg

Legionreturns said:

Game over... That's a shambles. Turning a close game into an annihilation. 

The Gabbatoir!

usedtobe

RandallFlagg said:

Legionreturns said:

Game over... That's a shambles. Turning a close game into an annihilation. 

The Gabbatoir!

Heard you the first time..
  

iseverynamegone

Put Stokes into that game and I think we would likely have won it. If and buts. 

Plenty of positives but  disappointing finish with the ball, have to take a few wickets tomorrow just to get some momentum back.

Hope Anderson is fit and Moeen gets back to something like by next week.   

RandallFlagg

Well that's that then.

Next up is the day/nighter with the pink ball in Adelaide. Hopefully the boys can bounce back 

guitars4you

Stats will show a strong 10 wicket win - Whilst I think after the first 2/3 days we were still in the game, we never dominated and owned the game - we had them under pressure 1st innings at 4 down and again early the 3rd day but a strong captains innings ensured they came through

They talk about winning each session - a 1/3 of the days play - I bet Australia won more than us - I could get at best 2 for us over the whole test- maybe a couple of drawn sessions - But the rest were Australia's hence the win

We obviously needed a far stronger 2nd innings but not sure that alone is why we lost the match - certainly the team as a whole needs to move up a notch or two , but batting wise Root and Cook have to do more and hopefully that will bring the others through - Bowling wise it was pretty much mundane apart from a brief spell by Anderson on the 3rd day and I fear the biggest issue is more on the bowling and I can't see us taking 20 wickets in a match at this stage - 2 strong bowlers and Broad has his bad days as well as good - Otherwise a mundane attack

RandallFlagg

guitars4you said:

Stats will show a strong 10 wicket win - Whilst I think after the first 2/3 days we were still in the game, we never dominated and owned the game - we had them under pressure 1st innings at 4 down and again early the 3rd day but a strong captains innings ensured they came through

They talk about winning each session - a 1/3 of the days play - I bet Australia won more than us - I could get at best 2 for us over the whole test- maybe a couple of drawn sessions - But the rest were Australia's hence the win

We obviously needed a far stronger 2nd innings but not sure that alone is why we lost the match - certainly the team as a whole needs to move up a notch or two , but batting wise Root and Cook have to do more and hopefully that will bring the others through - Bowling wise it was pretty much mundane apart from a brief spell by Anderson on the 3rd day and I fear the biggest issue is more on the bowling and I can't see us taking 20 wickets in a match at this stage - 2 strong bowlers and Broad has his bad days as well as good - Otherwise a mundane attack

I think I agree on the bowling. The same old issue, we can swing, seam and spin it at home, but in Aussie conditions with the Kookaburra we get stuck. Same with the batting, same old issues, can't deal with the Aussie quicks when they pile on the short stuff, get caught with bat in front of our noses and nick it or poorly executed pull shots if there's any width to the bouncer.

If we want to win the series, as you say Mark, we need to move up a gear or 2. I can't see any evidence of that yet. How the hell did we win in 2010/11? Cook needs to find that form, in these conditions, again!

crunchman

Lack of big scores in the batting was a real problem.  I think there were 7 scores over 38, but no-one went on to get a big score. You have to convert starts.  I don't think the tail will contribute much against Starc and Cummins, so the top order have to go big. 

The other big worry for me is the spin bowling.  Moeen looked awful on the bits I've watched.  When he only bowls 4 overs in the second innings on a 4th/5th day pitch, and Root bowls 6 overs there are major problems.  Lyon played a significant role for Australia.  If there was decent spin bowling it would take the pressure off of the quick bowlers.

guitars4you

crunchman said:

Lack of big scores in the batting was a real problem.  I think there were 7 scores over 38, but no-one went on to get a big score. You have to convert starts.  I don't think the tail will contribute much against Starc and Cummins, so the top order have to go big. 

The other big worry for me is the spin bowling.  Moeen looked awful on the bits I've watched.  When he only bowls 4 overs in the second innings on a 4th/5th day pitch, and Root bowls 6 overs there are major problems.  Lyon played a significant role for Australia.  If there was decent spin bowling it would take the pressure off of the quick bowlers.

I appreciate the balance of the side is important - Yet if they place Moeen at 6 as the all rounder, which they appear to have done in the absence of Ben, then I'm not sure why they need 4 pace bowlers - drop Woakes or Ball and bring in Rashid as a genuine spinner and not a 'part time' spinner as is Moeen - Not sure why they appear to not want/need Rashid in the test side - Granted he can have a bad day if they go after him but he can also be a match winner - he can also wag his tail at times in the batting dept

RandallFlagg

2nd Test. Day 2 Aus 300-6. If Aus get 350+ England will probably be lucky to get 250.

RandallFlagg

I reckon a 0-5 Ashes drubbing could be on the cards. With the bowlers doing OK-ish but not getting the wickets we need the batting to excel but it doesn't and we don't have depth of batting down the order like the Aussies.

guitars4you

well plan A is working for the Aussies - see of Broad and Anderson and score of a below par attack

Chasing 400 plus immediately pus pressure on the batting side and allows them to bowl with aggression throughout, with Nathan holding down one end after 20 overs or so

I don't see us getting 20 wickets in a match at this stage - In fact it is almost a tongue in check declaration in that you can't bowl us out - nearly 100 partnership again in the tail with Cummins