Is it possible to define what is a vintage guitar ?

guitars4you

Is it possible to define within a small paragraph (maybe in 2-4 sentences and maybe in less than 100 words) as to what is a vintage guitar ? - I know some will have a simple statement that 'it is any guitar that is over 20 (or 25 or 30) years old' - In which case all guitars will one day be vintage - Easy to accept as a statement but I don't buy into that or believe it - I've looked at many USA specialist vintage guitar dealers web sites + Reverb and no one appears to be able to make a relevant statement in one small paragraph - I've looked into what is classified as 'vintage wine' and indeed similar comments regarding 'vintage cars'

Regarding vintage cars I found this article http://news.hrowen.co.uk/definition-dilemma-classic-vintage-veteran-just-old-cars/ with many interesting and valid comments that I'd encourage you to read before hand

The following comments probably need to be considered within this small paragraph as to 'what is a vintage guitar'

It does not have to be a good guitar with regards to the playing performance - not all old guitars from the 40's, 50's or 60's are good players but we generally accept them as vintage

It does not have to be all original - granted an original version will have a greater value then a 'players grade' version

It does not have to be built by the big names like Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacker etc - it could be a Radiotone Archtop

It does not have to be rare - there are many guitars that have been produced in far less quantities than a 1962 Strat but worth peanuts in comparrison

It does not have to be expensive - either today or when originally produced

I suppose what we classify as aspirational is a matter of opinion and taste - some collect weird, odd ball  guitars be it from Italy, Japan, Europe or the USA

If we look at the 1960's, when the term 'guitar hero' was bestowed on the likes of Clapton, Beck, Page, Green, Kossoff and Hendrix, none of them played guitars that at the time that were classed as 'vintage' as many were only 5 or 10 years old or even new - Clapton purchased and played his used 1960 LP as it offered him a tone and performance that he required at the time - I suppose there were little other options for him to consider - The copy market did not exist - The boutique market from the likes of PRS, Hamer, Collings etc did not exist - Very little, if any custom builders existed - Yet this era has created an aspirational aura that still sells records, guitars, memorabilia etc etc today - As such a Gibson 1957-1960 Les Paul will generally have a far higher value and create more interest than a 1930's Radiotone Archtop used by a far less known artist - Yet both can be accepted as vintage

I'm sure there are other points to take into account, that I've missed or forgotten at this stage but I dare say will be brought into play

I'm not sure if there is an answer - I dare say it will throw up many points that many will agree or disagree with

Bridgehouse

I think 1950-1965 was the "golden age" especially for Fender and Gibson.

I actually don't think "vintage" is a particularly useful term.

horse

Bridgehouse said:

I think 1950-1965 was the "golden age" especially for Fender and Gibson.

I actually don't think "vintage" is a particularly useful term.

I'd say 50-63 for Fenders :-)

Bridgehouse

horse said:

Bridgehouse said:

I think 1950-1965 was the "golden age" especially for Fender and Gibson.

I actually don't think "vintage" is a particularly useful term.

I'd say 50-63 for Fenders :-)

Cheeky

horse

Bridgehouse said:

horse said:

Bridgehouse said:

I think 1950-1965 was the "golden age" especially for Fender and Gibson.

I actually don't think "vintage" is a particularly useful term.

I'd say 50-63 for Fenders :-)

Cheeky

  No idea what you mean! 

meltedbuzzbox

Pre CBS for fenders
No idea for Gibsons.
70s on the whole should never be deemed vintage

p90fool

Anything before the plunge of worldwide manufacturing into Austin Allegro-style quality control. 

So anything pre-74 really when it comes to the big names. 

Apologies to owners of late-70s Strats and Les Pauls, but your guitars are what caused the whole vintage guitar phenomenon, even though some of them can be very cool. 

You can't apply an age limit to vintage guitars, in the 70s we were looking for 10 year old guitars because new ones were terrible, but only the most optimistic of eBay sellers would describe a 2007 guitar as vintage. 

guitars4you

Bridgehouse said:

I think 1950-1965 was the "golden age" especially for Fender and Gibson.

I actually don't think "vintage" is a particularly useful term.

Yes a term that is generally acceptable by many - Yet playing devils advocate  then a 65-69 Strat, a Harrison style Rosewood Tele, a Thinline Tele, plus a Paisley Tele, are just 4 examples of highly desirable guitars that many would accept are 'vintage guitars' yet are not part of the Pre-CBS era - Likewise for a 68 LP Custom or a 67 Epi Casino

Jez6345789

I think the issue is in the guitar world we tend to perceive vintage as a measure of something better, rather than a definition of a guitar past a certain number of years.  As you said the guitar Heroes of the 60's70's played, were barely 10 years old.

I think we are simply stuck with the term as we have chosen to use it, along with Golden Era, Lawsuit Era etc etc. 

In terms of do all guitars of a certain age become vintage, I think the answer is yes all clothes weather a denim jacket or a Chanel dress become vintage at a point in time. 

guitars4you

p90fool said:

Anything before the plunge of worldwide manufacturing into Austin Allegro-style quality control. 

So anything pre-74 really when it comes to the big names. 

Apologies to owners of late-70s Strats and Les Pauls, but your guitars are what caused the whole vintage guitar phenomenon, even though some of them can be very cool. 

You can't apply an age limit to vintage guitars, in the 70s we were looking for 10 year old guitars because new ones were terrible, but only the most optimistic of eBay sellers would describe a 2007 guitar as vintage. 

Regarding your Austin Allegro comment I refer to it as accountant based bean counters  - I know what you mean and a valid comment

Agree with the comments about late 70's models as it was such models that created the phrase 'old is better than new' - that phrase still lingers, but IMO no longer valid regarding playing performance as many C/Shop Strats outperform a poor/mediocre old Pre-CBS Strat

scrumhalf

A vintage guitar is one you're selling that's a bit old. If you're buying, it's just a bit old.

guitars4you

Jez6345789 said:

In terms of do all guitars of a certain age become vintage, I think the answer is yes all clothes weather a denim jacket or a Chanel dress become vintage at a point in time. 

this is the bit I don't agree with - but appears to becoming acceptable - So in due course a Chinese built Epi LP will be vintage, or worse still a Squier Strat from a  starter pack

TheBigDipper

Vintage is an undefinable term when it comes to guitars, because -  as the OP suggests - no-one will agree on a definition that can be measured objectively. It invariably includes subjective criteria on things such as playability or tone. That's different to vintage cars - a "vintage" car might be all-original and in showroom condition or a pile of rust, but they're all "vintage" if they fall into the age range. 

When it comes to guitars, I'd say it is a meaningless term that should be avoided - and avoid the sellers who use it, too. 

johnl

I'd say "a guitar of a certain age that is still held in high regard" - that high regard might be because of particular tonal characteristics or an association with a particular artist etc.

UnclePsychosis

It's an utterly meaningless term anyway. Your OP pretty much acknowledges as much, you may as well admit it to yourself! 

guitars4you

TheBigDipper said:

Vintage is an undefinable term when it comes to guitars, because -  as the OP suggests - no-one will agree on a definition that can be measured objectively. It invariably includes subjective criteria on things such as playability or tone. That's different to vintage cars - a "vintage" car might be all-original and in showroom condition or a pile of rust, but they're all "vintage" if they fall into the age range. 

When it comes to guitars, I'd say it is a meaningless term that should be avoided - and avoid the sellers who use it, too. 

a likely conclusion I feel - yet hard to avoid 'the sellers who use it' as it is now such a generic term that so many use

guitars4you

UnclePsychosis said:

It's an utterly meaningless term anyway. Your OP pretty much acknowledges as much, you may as well admit it to yourself! 

not trying to admit or indeed fight it,  as I agree it has always been a matter of opinion and not a fact - just trying to see what other thoughts might be out there

I think very few would object to using the term 'vintage' for a '1962 Strat' - yet it now appears to be acceptable by some to put a '79' Strat into the same category - Yet in many ways stating that I have a '1962 Strat' for sale should be enough for it to suffice on its own - The guitar has enough credibility to stand on its own 2 feet as a '1962 Strat' without needing to acquire any other additional adjective like 'vintage'

Yet the term 'vintage' might be required to suggest a dealer who is a specialist in 'old' guitars

Funkfingers

As you probably already know, the word vintage is borrowed from wine making.

The consensus about wine is that, up to a point, it improves with the passing of time. This is not necessarily so when it comes to "senior" electric guitars, basses, synthesizers and amplification. 

SquireJapan

Old, interesting and sometimes expensive. 

HarrySeven

Funkfingers said:

This is not necessarily so when it comes to "senior" electric guitars, basses, synthesizers and amplification. 

Have a Wiz, @Funkfingers.

One only has to trawl eBay, Gumtree, etc for a nanosecond to find acreage of ads touting utter shite as "vintage", "mojo", etc.

If a guitar, bass or whatever was cheap crap in 1958, 1967, 1974 or 1982, the intervening years won't have magically transformed it into an object of rare import and desire.

Skipped

guitars4you said:

Is it possible to define within a small paragraph (maybe in 2-4 sentences and maybe in less than 100 words) as to what is a vintage guitar ? - I know some will have a simple statement that 'it is any guitar that is over 20 (or 25 or 30) years old' - In which case all guitars will one day be vintage - Easy to accept as a statement but I don't buy into that or believe it -

Nor me.
The first Gibson Historics are now 24 years old.
But they can never be vintage guitars - the idea is ludicrous.
The are a "Re-issue" of a vintage guitar or possibly a "Replica" of a vintage guitar depending on the language that Gibson decide to use.