Is it possible to define what is a vintage guitar ?

iseverynamegone

Funkfingers said:

As you probably already know, the word vintage is borrowed from wine making.

The consensus about wine is that, up to a point, it improves with the passing of time. This is not necessarily so when it comes to "senior" electric guitars, basses, synthesizers and amplification. 

Only certain wine improves with age. Try that screw top Sidewinder Merlot you got for £3 from Lidl after 25 years to easily prove that point

Bridgehouse

iseverynamegone said:

Funkfingers said:

As you probably already know, the word vintage is borrowed from wine making.

The consensus about wine is that, up to a point, it improves with the passing of time. This is not necessarily so when it comes to "senior" electric guitars, basses, synthesizers and amplification. 

Only certain wine improves with age. Try that screw top Sidewinder Merlot you got for £3 from Lidl after 25 years to easily prove that point

Also depends on the grape, the fermentation process etc etc - Beaujolais Nouveau would taste like shit if it were 20 years old...

Sassafras

When I hear the term vintage guitar, I think of these:



I prefer the term 'classic'.

TheBigDipper

guitars4you said:

TheBigDipper said:

Vintage is an undefinable term when it comes to guitars, because -  as the OP suggests - no-one will agree on a definition that can be measured objectively. It invariably includes subjective criteria on things such as playability or tone. That's different to vintage cars - a "vintage" car might be all-original and in showroom condition or a pile of rust, but they're all "vintage" if they fall into the age range. 

When it comes to guitars, I'd say it is a meaningless term that should be avoided - and avoid the sellers who use it, too. 

a likely conclusion I feel - yet hard to avoid 'the sellers who use it' as it is now such a generic term that so many use

Agreed. Sadly... (sigh).

bgmartinsbridge

I've always seen anything seventies and older as vintage. And like a decent wine, you get better (in the case of guitars older) vintages. 

Eighties is new, to me. 

Late seventies is old, on the cusp of vintage.. 

p90fool

guitars4you said:

p90fool said:

Anything before the plunge of worldwide manufacturing into Austin Allegro-style quality control. 

So anything pre-74 really when it comes to the big names. 

Apologies to owners of late-70s Strats and Les Pauls, but your guitars are what caused the whole vintage guitar phenomenon, even though some of them can be very cool. 

You can't apply an age limit to vintage guitars, in the 70s we were looking for 10 year old guitars because new ones were terrible, but only the most optimistic of eBay sellers would describe a 2007 guitar as vintage. 

Regarding your Austin Allegro comment I refer to it as accountant based bean counters  - I know what you mean and a valid comment

Agree with the comments about late 70's models as it was such models that created the phrase 'old is better than new' - that phrase still lingers, but IMO no longer valid regarding playing performance as many C/Shop Strats outperform a poor/mediocre old Pre-CBS Strat

Exactly, the genuine NEED for vintage guitars is no longer there in my opinion, they're merely nice things to own.  

richardhomer

I agree that ‘vintage’ is now an unhelpful term. A ‘vintage’ wine is one which acknowledged as being ‘exceptionally good’, rather than simply ‘old’.

If you apply this to guitars, a late 70s Strat is simply ‘old’ - but arguably a Custom Shop Strat might fit the ‘vintage’ tag. Anything pre-‘65 from Fender and Gibson is certainly ‘collectable’.

I agree that ‘classic’ is a much more useful term overall....

timhulio

Anything pre-1980, regardless of quality.

Flink_Poyd

i go by the dictionary definition 

Denoting something from the past of high quality, especially something representing the best of its kind.

That then excludes the Chinese Squier etc. 

Wolfetone

vintage

ˈvɪntɪdʒ/Submit

noun

1.

the year or place in which wine, especially wine of high quality, was produced.

"1982 is one of the best vintages of the century"

synonyms: year

"1986 was a classic vintage for the Cabernet Sauvignon grape"

2.

the time that something of quality was produced.

"rifles of various sizes and vintages"

synonyms: period, era, epoch, time, origin; More

adjective

1.

relating to or denoting wine of high quality.

"vintage claret"

synonyms: high-quality, quality, prime, choice, select, superior, best

"vintage French wine"

2.

denoting something from the past of high quality, especially something representing the best of its kind.

"a vintage Sherlock Holmes adventure"

synonyms: high-quality, quality, prime, choice, select, superior, best More

meltedbuzzbox

timhulio said:

Anything pre-1980, regardless of quality.

Bollocks to that!

prowla

In wine it can refer to the particular year (which could be a good year for the given region), but in most cases it is used generically to denote old/collectable/matured/classic.

It doesn't have a particular all-encompassing number, eg. it is used with cars and cheese.

As far as guitars go, I'd say 30+ years old is about right, though I'd probably not use it for something post-70s.

However, that said, you do see the 80s synths referred to as "vintage" and similarly computers.

Another inexact but evocative term which can be used with cars, but not (yet) with guitars is referring to something as a "future classic" (if you've got one you can get preferred parking at Brooklands!).

guitars4you

prowla said:

.

Another inexact but evocative term which can be used with cars, but not (yet) with guitars is referring to something as a "future classic" (if you've got one you can get preferred parking at Brooklands!).

future classic - yes that is a great one isn't it ? - So on the basis that some believe any guitar over 30 years old is vintage, then we can list ALL GUITARS as 'FUTURE VINTAGE' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My knowledge of wine is seriously limited - But from what I hear,  the term 'vintage wine' is relative to a particular year and not all wine produced before a certain date or that is 20 years old or more

prowla

guitars4you said:

prowla said:

.

Another inexact but evocative term which can be used with cars, but not (yet) with guitars is referring to something as a "future classic" (if you've got one you can get preferred parking at Brooklands!).

future classic - yes that is a great one isn't it ? - So on the basis that some believe any guitar over 30 years old is vintage, then we can list ALL GUITARS as 'FUTURE VINTAGE' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My knowledge of wine is seriously limited - But from what I hear,  the term 'vintage wine' is relative to a particular year and not all wine produced before a certain date or that is 20 years old or more

Yes, with wine vintage refers to the year it was produced, every wine has a vintage! However, the term "vintage wines" tends to mean ones of a notable or old vintage.

Another take on the use of "vintage" is something that's old but not old enough to be an antique (100 years old); therefore, everything (provided it survives the ravages of time) is a future antique, so yep, they're all future vintage!

I have a 70s Zenta bass and I refer to it as vintage. There are also the Top Twenty, Teisco and so-on 70s vintage guitars, but anybody who takes it to be a sign of quality is a fool.

I think that is the point there - don't confuse vintage with quality.

Some of these imprecise but evocative terms do appear to pop in and out of use; as well as "vintage", we have "lawsuit" and "road worn" (or "road yawn" as I call it!).

Fozz

I'm not sure you can define vintage without thinking of the wider psychology of guitar buyers, as for me the definition is desired guitars of a certain age and brand that evoke a perceived link to a golden age.

Firstly brand power is incredibly strong - take two identical guitars, one badged as a Fender, one not and 100% of people would likely prefer the Fender. 

Secondly, desirability is linked to a perceived 'golden age' of guitars to a degree not consistent with reality. Yes, bad 70s guitars initially created that demand, but modern guitars can't be said to be 'worse' than their 50s and 60s equivalent.

I'm personally fascinated by the thought of what a guitar could be if we weren't always looking backwards - stuff like that Parker Fly etc. I still play a Tele as my main though ha ha ha. 

lovebuzz

vintage in electric guitar context means, imo, anything pre-1980 or pre early 80s. 

desirability or quality are irrelevant

Blueingreen

It's difficult or impossible to get a clear definition, because there will be dissent whatever one is suggested.

My own suggestion would be "a guitar which the market places a higher value on than its intrinsic value as an instrument would ordinarily justify, because of its age".  

chrisj1602

60s or earlier for me, the first incarnations of classic guitar designs.

prowla

Blueingreen said:

It's difficult or impossible to get a clear definition, because there will be dissent whatever one is suggested.

My own suggestion would be "a guitar which the market places a higher value on than its intrinsic value as an instrument would ordinarily justify, because of its age".  

So that includes the awful cheapo 70s ones which seem to be going for hundreds at the moment?

tampaxboo

'vintage' is an overused meaningless word generally used to try to make old unplayable crap sound as if it has at least one redeeming quality worth parting with money for.

if it's more recent unplayable crap then the correct term is 'ideal project'.

and if it's old, unplayable crap and you overpaid for it, then the correct term is 'sound investment'.