Putin's Poisoners at it in Salisbury

BigLicks67

ICBM said:

BigLicks67 said:

Apparently, the Russians have been testing our air defences for ages, so next time they appear of the coast of Cornwall we could shoot one of their fighters down, in the same way Turkey did with no repercussions.

Given that they test our defences with nuclear-armed bombers not fighters, that might not be such a good idea...

I'm sure those plucky Cornish fellas will take a bit of Nuclear fallout in their stride.

HAL9000

BigLicks67 said:

ICBM said:

BigLicks67 said:

Apparently, the Russians have been testing our air defences for ages, so next time they appear of the coast of Cornwall we could shoot one of their fighters down, in the same way Turkey did with no repercussions.

Given that they test our defences with nuclear-armed bombers not fighters, that might not be such a good idea...

I'm sure those plucky Cornish fellas will take a bit of Nuclear fallout in their stride.

Will they develop superpowers?

Phil_aka_Pip

HAL9000 said:

BigLicks67 said:

ICBM said:

BigLicks67 said:

Apparently, the Russians have been testing our air defences for ages, so next time they appear of the coast of Cornwall we could shoot one of their fighters down, in the same way Turkey did with no repercussions.

Given that they test our defences with nuclear-armed bombers not fighters, that might not be such a good idea...

I'm sure those plucky Cornish fellas will take a bit of Nuclear fallout in their stride.

Will they develop superpowers?

Only if there's no kryptonite in the vicinity

bingefeller

I was reading the Facebook news stories about this and some of the comments sections appear to be full of pro-Russian supporters with zero sympathy for any of the victims.  Makes you wonder how many are Russians paid to spread propaganda and smear the Skirpals and how many are just trolls. 

Axe_meister

Assuming the spy survives he will no doubt be taken into protective custody. No doubt to warrant an assassination attempt he must have some juicy info.

Phil_aka_Pip

Axe_meister said:

No doubt to warrant an assassination attempt he must have some juicy info.

That would be the logical conclusion, but it would not surprise me if this were a purely punitive action. As in: "I'm Putin, you can't mess with me and get away with it, even years after."

VimFuego

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Axe_meister said:

No doubt to warrant an assassination attempt he must have some juicy info.

That would be the logical conclusion, but it would not surprise me if this were a purely punitive action. As in: "I'm Putin, you can't mess with me and get away with it, even years after."

yeah, I'm with the punitive, it's Putin saying "we will get you, it may take years, you may thing you're safe, but we will get you". Can't believe the spy has anything useful left to say, not after all this time.

Myranda

VimFuego said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Axe_meister said:

No doubt to warrant an assassination attempt he must have some juicy info.

That would be the logical conclusion, but it would not surprise me if this were a purely punitive action. As in: "I'm Putin, you can't mess with me and get away with it, even years after."

yeah, I'm with the punitive, it's Putin saying "we will get you, it may take years, you may thing you're safe, but we will get you". Can't believe the spy has anything useful left to say, not after all this time.

He said as much in an interview on Russian TV according to the Metro this morning... I believe it was "you'll eat poison" 

ICBM

VimFuego said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Axe_meister said:

No doubt to warrant an assassination attempt he must have some juicy info.

That would be the logical conclusion, but it would not surprise me if this were a purely punitive action. As in: "I'm Putin, you can't mess with me and get away with it, even years after."

yeah, I'm with the punitive, it's Putin saying "we will get you, it may take years, you may thing you're safe, but we will get you". Can't believe the spy has anything useful left to say, not after all this time.

It's also possible his daughter was the main target... she was still involved in something political in Russia apparently.

Or both.

VimFuego

mind you, I also think it was a message meant for the west, he's basically saying he doesn't care about our laws and borders, he can and act where ever he wants and we are an irrelevance to him.

goldtop

VimFuego said:

mind you, I also think it was a message meant for the west, he's basically saying he doesn't care about our laws and borders, he can and act where ever he wants and we are an irrelevance to him.

And the timing is no accident. He did this at a time when GB is scrabbling for international relevance. It's a very public humiliation for GB. 21 people poisoned, FFS. He just does not care (see Beslan, Moscow theatre, etc) - collateral damage just adds to the stakes.

HMG's "let's not speculate" BS is about buying time to find a response that doesn't look too pathetic.

IMHO, the correct answer is obvious, unmentionable, and only done at great risk by imaginary GB heroes. And HMG only does that to unarmed terrorists in Gibraltar.

Dominic

Don't mess with the Richest man in the world

HAL9000

ICBM said:

That does make it very likely it's a Russian government/secret service operation.

"He said he didn't meddle. He said he didn't meddle. I asked him again. You can only ask so many times,"

"Every time he sees me, he says, 'I didn't do that’ And I believe, I really believe, that when he tells me that, he means it."

"I think he is very insulted by it,"

Clarky

what I don't understand is the method..
why try to kill someone in a way that your average criminal couldn't?
why use a method that analysts can determine points to a state sponsored assassination attempt?
not saying it is or isn't Russia
like the other fella killed with radioactive material.. the average goon just won't have exotic stuff like that laying around..

it's like someone wants the finger pointed at Russia..
or Russia wants the finger pointed at them and of course they'll publicly deny everything..
either way.. it don't make much sense to me..
especially if whoever did it don't want to get caught

Garthy

Clarky said:

what I don't understand is the method..
why try to kill someone in a way that your average criminal couldn't?
why use a method that analysts can determine points to a state sponsored assassination attempt?
not saying it is or isn't Russia
like the other fella killed with radioactive material.. the average goon just won't have exotic stuff like that laying around..

it's like someone wants the finger pointed at Russia..
or Russia wants the finger pointed at them and of course they'll publicly deny everything..
either way.. it don't make much sense to me..
especially if whoever did it don't want to get caught

I'm assuming the poisoning is to guarantee the correct target, but also allow the assassin time to get away before the symptoms begin to show or witnesses realise what has happened. There aren't many undetectable poisons that are safe to handle or easy to administer, which is perhaps why certain agencies use such exotic poisons in the first place.

jellyroll

Clarky said:

what I don't understand is the method..
why try to kill someone in a way that your average criminal couldn't?
why use a method that analysts can determine points to a state sponsored assassination attempt?
not saying it is or isn't Russia
like the other fella killed with radioactive material.. the average goon just won't have exotic stuff like that laying around..

it's like someone wants the finger pointed at Russia..
or Russia wants the finger pointed at them and of course they'll publicly deny everything..
either way.. it don't make much sense to me..
especially if whoever did it don't want to get caught

Because it kills you slowly......

ICBM

Clarky said:

what I don't understand is the method..
why try to kill someone in a way that your average criminal couldn't?
why use a method that analysts can determine points to a state sponsored assassination attempt?
not saying it is or isn't Russia
like the other fella killed with radioactive material.. the average goon just won't have exotic stuff like that laying around..

it's like someone wants the finger pointed at Russia..
or Russia wants the finger pointed at them and of course they'll publicly deny everything..
either way.. it don't make much sense to me..
especially if whoever did it don't want to get caught

That’s the whole point - everyone knows it was on Putin’s orders. It’s both two fingers to the world and a warning to other enemies at the same time, to show he can kill whoever he wants wherever they are. Even the blatantly false public denial is probably part of it, to show that he doesn’t care that everyone knows he’s lying.

He’s laughing at the rest of the world, but it’s very much not a joke, it’s a pure demonstration of power.

HAL9000

Clarky said: vu

what I don't understand is the method..
why try to kill someone in a way that your average criminal couldn't?
why use a method that analysts can determine points to a state sponsored assassination attempt?
not saying it is or isn't Russia
like the other fella killed with radioactive material.. the average goon just won't have exotic stuff like that laying around..

it's like someone wants the finger pointed at Russia..
or Russia wants the finger pointed at them and of course they'll publicly deny everything..
either way.. it don't make much sense to me..
especially if whoever did it don't want to get caught

Because it says to other Russians and former Soviet Bloc people - this could happen to you if you ever become our enemy. The evidence isn't concrete enough to actually point to the Kremlin (who will deny it anyway) even though everyone knows.

Much the same with the Alexander Litvenenko case. Apparently there was enough radioactivity that anyone with a geiger counter could have traced a path to Moscow (where it was, of course, denied).

Edit - sorry @ICBM , just noticed you beat me to it.

chillidoggy

I heard that these nerve agents are not that difficult to make*. Hence I’m not convinced it’s Russia, it could be a stitch up.



*Obviously, I haven’t Googled the recipe.

Myranda

chillidoggy said:

I heard that these nerve agents are not that difficult to make*. Hence I’m not convinced it’s Russia, it could be a stitch up.



*Obviously, I haven’t Googled the recipe.

A handful are easier to make - sarin for instance... Some are incredibly difficult - VX type stuff. 

But that's not to say its easy, cheap or that the person making it without expensive hazmat suits will survive to make more for the criminals... 

There is very good reason we almost never hear about nerve agents used in gang related murders... If you want to poison someone there are easier to obtain non-nerve agent toxins (botulinum toxin is biologically produced and the single deadliest substance to human beings there is... So why go to the trouble of nerve agents? 

Well... That post got on a watch list...