Putin's Poisoners at it in Salisbury

Kitsune

NelsonP said:

I think the apparent imcompetance is all part of Russia's strategy - basically saying "your security services are so sh8t we can send these muppets in to get someone and there's not a thing you can do about it, you pussies".

Me too. Its clearly "I'll piss on your lawn and the fuck you gonna do, eh?"

Clarky

NelsonP said:

I think the apparent imcompetance is all part of Russia's strategy - basically saying "your security services are so sh8t we can send these muppets in to get someone and there's not a thing you can do about it, you pussies".

those guys may not have been muppets..
if it's true that one of them is a highly decorated officer from an elite regiment, he may be quite a lot of things but I'd be surprised incompetent is one of them
they may have been instructed to leave a specific trail of evidence and they followed it to the letter..

then the trail gets discovered and Russia gets their message across to all..
- potential future targets: we'll come get you, you cannot hide
- other govt's: we don't care and you can't stop us
- conspiracy theorists: we'll keep feeding you the crap, now go confuse everyone and sew as much division as you can
- folks at home: don't fk with us, just buy in to the bullsht and be quiet there's a good chap

robwright

It’s been mentioned before but the real criminals are the British government who seem to condone (or even encourage) the money-laundering by Russian crooks in the UK. Meanwhile the people in each country continue to bend over and take it up the arse daily! 

But hey, maybe I’m a tad left wing in my views?

ICBM

Clarky said:

those guys may not have been muppets..

if it's true that one of them is a highly decorated officer from an elite regiment, he may be quite a lot of things but I'd be surprised incompetent is one of them
they may have been instructed to leave a specific trail of evidence and they followed it to the letter..

then the trail gets discovered and Russia gets their message across to all..
- potential future targets: we'll come get you, you cannot hide
- other govt's: we don't care and you can't stop us
- conspiracy theorists: we'll keep feeding you the crap, now go confuse everyone and sew as much division as you can
- folks at home: don't fk with us, just buy in to the bullsht and be quiet there's a good chap

Either that, or I even wonder whether these two left a deliberately obvious trail in order to be caught, but didn't actually carry out the hit - while the *real* perpetrators are still here and undiscovered.

It's hard to believe a highly experienced colonel in the GRU could have been so incompetent otherwise - and if it's correct that he's been involved in Chechnya and Ukraine, 'provocateur' tactics are probably more his thing than stealth.

Kitsune

robwright said:

It’s been mentioned before but the real criminals are the British government who seem to condone (or even encourage) the money-laundering by Russian crooks in the UK. 

Thats what makes the Governments sabre rattling so rich in comedy value.

goldtop

robwright said:

It’s been mentioned before but the real criminals are the British government who seem to condone (or even encourage) the money-laundering by Russian crooks in the UK. Meanwhile the people in each country continue to bend over and take it up the arse daily! 

But hey, maybe I’m a tad left wing in my views?

I know that false equivalence and whataboutism passes for debate these days, but this is pure unadulterated BS.

There's one dead bystander, one very ill bystander and three people with unknown long-term health effects. None were money-launderers, none were attacked by money launderers. They were attacked by a tyrant for a reason nothing to do with money laundering. He'd have done it whether HMG had stricter anti-money-laundering laws or none at all. He and his only-following-orders henchmen are the ONLY criminals involved in this.

(You won't find me disagreeing about money laundering, but there's a time and a place, and attaching it to an incident where innocents have been attacked, just to make a point, is more than a bit scummy.)

ICBM

goldtop said:

There's one dead bystander, one very ill bystander and three people with unknown long-term health effects. None were money-launderers, none were attacked by money launderers. They were attacked by a tyrant for a reason nothing to do with money laundering. He'd have done it whether HMG had stricter anti-money-laundering laws or none at all. He and his only-following-orders henchmen are the ONLY criminals involved in this.

I have to agree, and so even does a certain Jeremy Corbyn now - although I completely agree with him that it was right to hold fire until the evidence was clear, it now appears that it is.

Emp_Fab

Yeah, that's all well as maybe, but what about this bloody laundry money ?  Who's going to pay for getting all that Novichok out ?

I still want to know why everyone keeps referring to it as "Military Grade nerve agent".  You mean, as against the "Consumer Grade nerve agent" ?

ICBM

Emp_Fab said:

I still want to know why everyone keeps referring to it as "Military Grade nerve agent".  You mean, as against the "Consumer Grade nerve agent" ?

I'm actually surprised how relatively ineffective it was. I thought nerve agents were the sort of things where almost just a few molecules were enough to kill - but this one seems to have been fatal only when sprayed directly onto the victim's skin in a fairly large quantity. That doesn't seem like it would be very useful as a military weapon...

Heartfeltdawn

Emp_Fab said:

Yeah, that's all well as maybe, but what about this bloody laundry money ?  Who's going to pay for getting all that Novichok out ?

I still want to know why everyone keeps referring to it as "Military Grade nerve agent".  You mean, as against the "Consumer Grade nerve agent" ?

Consumer grade Novichok - comes in a Boss pedal sized container, retails for £50 and comes in a normal factory paint job.

Military Grade nerve agents come in handpainted boxes in a little cloth bag, go for £300+ a pop, and come with an instruction manual where they tell you about all the R+D they had to do in order to rip off something cheaper develop this superior product.  

Emp_Fab

Ahh!  A bit like "Smart Price" beans then.