Anyone need a Cable?

ThePrettyDamned

Sporky said:

Rocker said:

Nothing much happening so an opportunity to bash the audiophile brigade*.

To be fair we're the same to the Flat Earthers, the homeopaths, and all the other scamming swindlers. Fair's fair.  

Here is a Russ Andrews review. Smells fishy though. 

https://theaudiophileman.com/is-it-a-bird/

The comments reveal is a bussmann fuse that has been frozen (by Russ Andrews own admission  apparently).

Sporky

Yeah but they hand polish the fuse caps, right  Ah  no, they don't. But they do cover them in a bit of tape. And charge a hundred times as much.

But it's awfully unfair to point this out for some reason. 

Three-ColourSunburst

Sporky said:

Yeah but they hand polish the fuse caps, right  Ah  no, they don't. But they do cover them in a bit of tape. And charge a hundred times as much.

But it's awfully unfair to point this out for some reason. 

And the world of guitars is somehow less susceptible to snake oil?

http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/historic-gibson-faux-bumblebee-caps.118027/ ;

UnclePsychosis

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Sporky said:

Yeah but they hand polish the fuse caps, right  Ah  no, they don't. But they do cover them in a bit of tape. And charge a hundred times as much.

But it's awfully unfair to point this out for some reason. 

And the world of guitars is somehow less susceptible to snake oil?

http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/historic-gibson-faux-bumblebee-caps.118027/ ;

I must have missed the part where Sporky said that. 

Sporky

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Sporky said:

Yeah but they hand polish the fuse caps, right  Ah  no, they don't. But they do cover them in a bit of tape. And charge a hundred times as much.

But it's awfully unfair to point this out for some reason. 

And the world of guitars is somehow less susceptible to snake oil?

http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/historic-gibson-faux-bumblebee-caps.118027/ ;

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. The audiophile world has infected guitarists too - here are some ridiculously expensive that calls that are just Klotz Lagrange covered  in braid.

That sort  of  con isn't OK in any industry. 

ThePrettyDamned

Sporky said:

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Sporky said:

Yeah but they hand polish the fuse caps, right  Ah  no, they don't. But they do cover them in a bit of tape. And charge a hundred times as much.

But it's awfully unfair to point this out for some reason. 

And the world of guitars is somehow less susceptible to snake oil?

http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/historic-gibson-faux-bumblebee-caps.118027/ ;

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. The audiophile world has infected guitarists too - here are some ridiculously expensive that calls that are just Klotz Lagrange covered  in braid.

That sort  of  con isn't OK in any industry. 

Indeed. 

Further, there is a lot of Russ Andrews gear on ebay. People sell it on much cheaper than retail. 

Check this out - the "product" no longer exists, but screenshots are there. I give you, the Russ Andrews dynamic disk enhancer! 


https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/russ-andrews-best-one-yet

Which does... Well, it doesn't say what it does, but it's worth at least £3000! There is a screen snip of the ad  They claimed it did something magnetic (to a plastic and aluminium disk) but technically it spun the disk and had a light on it.

stickyfiddle

There's a huge amount of bollocks talked about tone pot capacitors, guitar cables, and chips in drive pedals, but I think there's a healthy dose of piss-taking of that stuff as well, by people who actually understand how electronics works.  But noone in the guitar industry (that I know of) is selling ickle stands to keep your guitar lead off the floor...

I particularly enjoyed "the science bit" from that cable tower review. I would wager that not a single person who has ever bought those knows what any of these big words actually mean.

• Low capacitance-to-ground (or surroundings) is one of the main goals of the Cable Tower. Lower influences equates to less signal degradation, coloration and smear. We can achieve better tests results over the porcelain powerline insulators due to our lower dielectric constant, unique patent-pending design and lower contact surface area.
• Insertion capacitance is the capacitance gain each elevator (or Cable Tower) introduces into the signal path. As you can see, each porcelain insertion capacitance value is nearly 4 x greater than that of Cable Tower. For example, should a listener insert 4 risers per cable, the porcelain insulator will introduce nearly 16 x greater insertion capacitance per channel over the Cable Tower. Again, Cable Tower shows superior performance over the porcelain high-tension power pole insulator; lower capacitance and less signal degradation.

I could potentially understand that the second statement may even be technically true (since you are moving your cables further from the carpet by putting them on stands) but the values discussed are so frickin small that it's completely 100% irrelevant.

Wazmeister

Man alive, that £20 postage is a bit over the top...

ICBM

ThePrettyDamned said:

Here is a Russ Andrews review. Smells fishy though. 

https://theaudiophileman.com/is-it-a-bird/

The comments reveal is a bussmann fuse that has been frozen (by Russ Andrews own admission  apparently).

Not only that, he claimed a sonic improvement when he used one in his turntable.

In a hi-fi turntable, the power simply supplies the motor. The signal from the cartridge goes straight to the output cable, without going through any electronics... so the “quality” of the fuse cannot have any bearing on the audio at all.

I’m actually surprised British audiophiles even tolerate having fuses in their plugs - other countries don’t, so presumably hi-fi systems all sound better elsewhere.

prowla

Octafish said:

springhead said:

Those fancy cables aren't going to sound any good unless they're supported on towers though.  We all knew that, right?

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dedicated2/cabletower.html

https://www.bflyaudio.uk/store/p11/TOWER

They look too cheap to be any good, £700 USB cable more my thing  

The thing is that analogue cables can make a difference.

I have tried different speaker cables, interconnects and mains cables; I have one of these in my hi-fi:

http://tomtomaudioshop.com/naim-hi-line-580-p.asp

However, £23k is stupidity and a USB cable either works or is faulty.

prowla

ICBM said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Here is a Russ Andrews review. Smells fishy though. 

https://theaudiophileman.com/is-it-a-bird/

The comments reveal is a bussmann fuse that has been frozen (by Russ Andrews own admission  apparently).

Not only that, he claimed a sonic improvement when he used one in his turntable.

In a hi-fi turntable, the power simply supplies the motor. The signal from the cartridge goes straight to the output cable, without going through any electronics... so the “quality” of the fuse cannot have any bearing on the audio at all.

I’m actually surprised British audiophiles even tolerate having fuses in their plugs - other countries don’t, so presumably hi-fi systems all sound better elsewhere.

Proper hi-fi enthusiasts have a separate mains spur for their system.

(I haven't, but if I rewired the house I would!)

ICBM

prowla said:

Proper hi-fi enthusiasts have a separate mains spur for their system.

(I haven't, but if I rewired the house I would!)

All the way from the substation? That really does show commitment!

Anything else is pointless, since the current still has to get to your house down hundreds of metres of wire with dozens of other houses connected to it.

Sporky

stickyfiddle said:

There's a huge amount of bollocks talked about tone pot capacitors, guitar cables, and chips in drive pedals, but I think there's a healthy dose of piss-taking of that stuff as well, by people who actually understand how electronics works. 

Exactly. Quackery and scamming should be challenged in all arenas.

Anyone who wants to enjoy their music more and buys fancy speakers or a DAC or so on is fine by me. Even silly money interconnects, even, at a pinch, silly speaker cable. But the point where you genuinely believe that a different mains fuse changes the sound is the point you should throw away all your CDs and hifi kit,  and just listen to low-bitrate MP3s through the earphones they give away free with your mobile phone, because your brain is now taking the piss out of you. 

Three-ColourSunburst

Sporky said:

Quackery and scamming should be challenged in all arenas.

I agree, but whatever the field there will always some who will defend even the wildest, pseudo-scientific nonsense, often with no less zeal than a religious crank. This sort of thing, for example.

Alder has a strong, clear, full-bodied sound, with beefy mids and excellent lows. Its highs sizzle slightly, but are rarely harsh

The swamp-ash sound is twangy, airy, and sweet. It offers firm lows, pleasant highs, a slightly scooped midrange

Solid basswood bodies have a fat, but well-balanced tonality. There’s a muscular midrange, but also a certain softness and breathiness. On a well-made guitar, basswood can yield good dynamics and definition with enough grind to give the sound some oomph.

Used on its own, mahogany’s characteristic tone is warm and somewhat soft, but well balanced with good grind and bite. There is usually good depth to the sound, with full but not especially tight lows, and appealing if unpronounced highs.

https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/tonewood-tutorial-everything-you-need-to-know-about-tonewoods

Even much of the language used mimics that of the audio nuts!

Sporky

Ah, sorry - I should have spotted that you were about to divert the conversation back to your normal soap-box. My apologies.

stickyfiddle

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Sporky said:

Quackery and scamming should be challenged in all arenas.

I agree, but whatever the field there will always some who will defend even the wildest, pseudo-scientific nonsense, often with no less zeal than a religious crank. This sort of thing, for example.

Alder has a strong, clear, full-bodied sound, with beefy mids and excellent lows. Its highs sizzle slightly, but are rarely harsh

The swamp-ash sound is twangy, airy, and sweet. It offers firm lows, pleasant highs, a slightly scooped midrange

Solid basswood bodies have a fat, but well-balanced tonality. There’s a muscular midrange, but also a certain softness and breathiness. On a well-made guitar, basswood can yield good dynamics and definition with enough grind to give the sound some oomph.

Used on its own, mahogany’s characteristic tone is warm and somewhat soft, but well balanced with good grind and bite. There is usually good depth to the sound, with full but not especially tight lows, and appealing if unpronounced highs.

https://www.guitarplayer.com/gear/tonewood-tutorial-everything-you-need-to-know-about-tonewoods

Even much of the language used mimics that of the audio nuts!

Are you saying every single piece of wood in the world resonates in exactly the same way regardless of shape, density and cell structure? 

Because that's hilarious.

Three-ColourSunburst

Sporky said:

Ah, sorry - I should have spotted that you were about to divert the conversation back to your normal soap-box. My apologies.

Not exactly, as we've already had that debate. I was more highlighting the fact that, whilst it is easy to laugh at audio nuts, the sort of irrationality and magical thinking that supports their beliefs is to be found everywhere, from a belief in electric guitar  'mojo' and 'tonewoods' through to homeopathy, feng shui and a belief in the existence of all-powerful sky fairies. It's like the Enlightenment never happened!

Rocker

ICBM said:

I’m actually surprised British audiophiles even tolerate having fuses in their plugs - other countries don’t, so presumably hi-fi systems all sound better elsewhere.

That is a fair point @ICBM. ; There are a lot of contacts inside the standard 13 amp plugtop.  The word in audiophileland is that the Schuko, which looks flimsier and 'wobblier' than the 13 amp plug, is actually better.  I built a socket extension block a few years ago and was tempted to fit Schuko sockets on it but baulked at the possibility that this might invalidate our house insurance.

You alluded to turntables in a post.  'All' a turntable has to do is spin the record at thirty three and a third revolutions per minute.  Mains powered motors on turntables spin the platter at the correct number of revolutions per minute but in a cogging fashion [50 Hz mains!].  This cogging is invisible to the naked eye but has a detrimental effect on the sound.  Literally hundreds of methods of minimizing this cogging have been used (with varying degrees of success), heavy platters, damping, DC motors, external power supply units etc. etc. etc.  Much easier to opt for digital playback. Which has its own set of problems but these are being solved to this day.

For those who laugh at the costs of decent hi-fi and that people are prepared to pay those high costs, remember the fuss generated by the theft of a £13K PRS guitar recently........

Live and let live.   

57Deluxe

this guy

https://cdn7.dissolve.com/p/D112_45_614/D112_45_614_0004_600.jpg

Octafish

Rocker said:

For those who laugh at the costs of decent hi-fi and that people are prepared to pay those high costs, remember the fuss generated by the theft of a £13K PRS guitar recently........

Live and let live.   

I remember that, the fuss was primarily about the serial theft of instruments from music shops, don't recall much time being0 given to eulogising the virtues of a 13k guitar. Personally I think that's stupid money for a guitar and I got the impression quite a few thought likewise, but yes their are plenty of guitarist idiots susceptible to the old unicorn dust and snake oil....