Anyone need a Cable?

Panama_Jack666 · April 2018

23 grand for a cable. You're playing yourself if you buy one of these! If you've ever listened to anything I've recorded then my guitar is plugged in with 2 x £15 quid Fender cables and a load of shit patch leads. I can't imagine I'm significantly different to the rest of the musician population!

Legionreturns · April 2018

For 23 grand you'd be better off getting whoever you're listening to to come and play live... I don't imagine the studio that mixed their recordings used Russ Andrews cable

stickyfiddle · April 2018

@UnclePsychosis gets wisdom. I enjoyed that quote immensely

Three-ColourSunburst · April 2018

ICBM said:

http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf

I bothered to find this, just to check. And there it is - that's the whole post, not edited, no attempt to dismiss it as being wrong based on just being an undergraduate study or anything.

I simply pointed out that the conclusion was wrong based on the data contained within, as you are every time you raise this subject AGAIN.

When that thread started I was intrigued by the debate and went off in order to find what research was available on the topic. This was one of the first things I came across. As part of the debate it came to light that it is actually just a student project and was poorly done. Acknowledging its shortcomings I then went off in search of some more credible research and eventually found that paper from academics in a specialist luthierie department of a university's physics department, peer reviewed and published in an academic journal. It's conclusion is that body 'tine wood' does not affect the sound of an electric guitar, as sensed via the pickups.

The rational things to do is to base one's conclusions on the most credible research that is available. Yes that student project can be disregarded. This paper, on the other hand pretty much gives a definitive answer and it shows that I am actually correct in asserting that electric guitar 'tone wood' is a myth.

https://physicae.ifi.unicamp.br/index.php/physicae/article/view/physicae.9.5

Sporky · April 2018

The graphs in that paper don't have their axes fully marked so aren't huge use, but overlaying them shows distinct differences in the response of each body.

They should have done a waterfall chart for each body to show the frequency response over time, as that varies by material too. Acoustics is very much both a frequency domain and time domain field so it seems very odd to me to see something that misses out such a critical aspect Had I been reviewing or at the viva interview I'd have asked about that, it is very suspicious.

Another reference you've provided that contradicts your argument. NEXT! Preferably in English this time please.

One would think that if this was a well supported hypothesis you'd have been able to find more references, and better ones. You're zero for two now; at what point will you reconsider your opinion?

UnclePsychosis · April 2018

It's very hard to tell via the power of Google translate but I'm not even convinced that 3CS's beloved Portuguese paper is from an actual journal and not just the university equivalent of vanity publishing.

It's certainly not a "definitive" answer to the question---to be honest I doubt the original text actually says it is but subtleties tend to get butchered by translate.

I can see lots of obvious questions that I would ask about the methodology and results as presented in that paper but frankly it seems rude to pick apart work using Google translate and secondly I don't really care enough to get sucked further into the tedium.

Three-ColourSunburst · April 2018

Rocker · April 2018

Gagaryn said:

Rocker said:

Bridgehouse said:

I’ve always wondered, it’s all very well spending all this money to improve the quality of your audio equipment, but what if the quality of your hearing is crap?

Fair point but one of the reasons for hi-fi is to extract whatever music or sounds that are on the disk. It was recorded and included for some reason after all.

Even within the world of Hi-Fi the aim is not to reproduce the recorded sound exactly; the aim is to replay it in a pleasing manner.

Otherwise speakers would all be flat response monitors and the use of valves would be redundant.

This is even more true when it comes to vinyl, it is recorded with the bass attenuated (otherwise the stylus couldn't track) and the treble boosted. Amplifiers (phono) are designed to do the opposite at playback. The amounts of attenuation and boost are set out in the RIAA standard.

Sure you knew all this but the RIAA stuff is something I once knew and then forgot all about until recently - currently researching building a valve phono preamp to inaccurately play back my records!

Yeah, there are two schools of thought in the world of hi-fi. The 100% accurate camp and the musical camp. And the twain shall not meet.... I fall into the somewhere-in-between camp, I love music but want to hear as much of what was recorded as possible. Over time ones hearing dis-improves. Not much we can do about that but what we can hear, we hear and I want that range of sounds to sound as good as possible. Slapping an expensive cable into your system is unlikely to provide a major boost to the heard sound quality. As always a well setup hi-fi system, even of modest cost, will outperform a considerably more costly system that is thrown together. Setup starts at the wall mains socket and ends at your ears. That is all that you can control or have any influence over. I don't know anyone who has taken a well setup system and reverted to how it was before the setup was done.

The equalization of vinyl LPs is a minefield. At the beginning every major label had it's own response curve, Decca, Colombia, etc.etc. Then they met up and agreed to use the RIAA response curve. But instead of implementing the RIAA curve, most continued to use their 'own' response curve. This explains why some music from way back sounds thin or heavy or not 'right'. This was demonstrated to me a few years ago when the demonstrator used his own phono stage, it had selectable curves inclucing RIAA. Violins suddenly sounded like violins when the correct curve was used. Jaw dropping in fact.

Gagaryn · April 2018

Three-ColourSunburst said:

ICBM said:

http://www.stormriders.com/guitar/telecaster/guitar_wood.pdf

I bothered to find this, just to check. And there it is - that's the whole post, not edited, no attempt to dismiss it as being wrong based on just being an undergraduate study or anything.

I simply pointed out that the conclusion was wrong based on the data contained within, as you are every time you raise this subject AGAIN.
When that thread started I was intrigued by the debate and went off in order to find what research was available on the topic. This was one of the first things I came across. As part of the debate it came to light that it is actually just a student project and was poorly done. Acknowledging its shortcomings I then went off in search of some more credible research and eventually found that paper from academics in a specialist luthierie department of a university's physics department, peer reviewed and published in an academic journal. It's conclusion is that body 'tine wood' does not affect the sound of an electric guitar, as sensed via the pickups.

The rational things to do is to base one's conclusions on the most credible research that is available. Yes that student project can be disregarded. This paper, on the other hand pretty much gives a definitive answer and it shows that I am actually correct in asserting that electric guitar 'tone wood' is a myth.

https://physicae.ifi.unicamp.br/index.php/physicae/article/view/physicae.9.5

If anyone ever needs to explain cognitive bias, this post might come in handy.

Legionreturns · April 2018

This thread might as well be closed. Every time we bring it back to the original topic some knob end derails it back to tone wood again. Bore off 3cs ffs...

JerkMoans · April 2018

Legionreturns said:

This thread might as well be closed. Every time we bring it back to the original topic some knob end derails it back to tone wood again. Bore off 3cs ffs...

Tell me about it. Started off with me poking gentle fun at some chancer's wiry wares on Reverb, mutates into WWF Smackdown about effing tone woods. Again.

Three-ColourSunburst · April 2018

Legionreturns said:

This thread might as well be closed. Every time we bring it back to the original topic some knob end derails it back to tone wood again. Bore off 3cs ffs...

I'm just responding to all the other posters who seem to want to talk about 'tone wood'! (Sticky fiddle, ICBM, crunchman, sporky, NelsonP, John_P, UnclePsychosis, Gagaryn.)

What you are effectively saying that others can post whatever nonsense they please about 'tone wood', but I have no right of reply.

Three-ColourSunburst · April 2018

Anyhow, back to audiophiles, fuses costing anything from £25 to $175 dollars apiece and £23,000 cables. (If that is alright with sticky fiddle, ICBM, crunchman, sporky, NelsonP, John_P, UnclePsychosis, Gagaryn et.al.) Perhaps the main point to remember is that they all form a part of a 'system', with all components of that system contributing to the sound.

Flanging_Fred · April 2018

Every time I see the words 'Russ Andrews' my brain gets a bit confused and I start thinking about cult film director Russ Meyer and his, err, body of work.

Sorry for the thread derail but I was wondering if Im the only one with this curious mental affliction?

ICBM · April 2018

Three-ColourSunburst said:

I'm just responding to all the other posters who seem to want to talk about 'tone wood'!

Who was it that hijacked the thread into the 'wood' debate again? I wonder...

The first mention of it is in the 4th post on page 2.

The funny thing is that I agree with you on a lot of the stuff you post, and you're right to be sceptical. But don't get back on the same old tired hobby-horse when the thread was *not* about that. (And nor is this post

.)

It's good to be sceptical. It's bad to be so sceptical that you're also willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater and ignore evidence when it proves you wrong.

I'm sure I have hobby-horses too, by the way.

Sporky · April 2018

Three-ColourSunburst said:

I'm just responding to all the other posters who seem to want to talk about 'tone wood'!

You are a liar.

You brought your tired, boorish soapboxing into the thread. No-one mentioned it before you. What's wrong with you that you're so able to revise history - even when it's all written down in front of you?

Here's where you did it:

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1847841/#Comment_1847841

Three-ColourSunburst · April 2018

ICBM said:

Three-ColourSunburst said:

I'm just responding to all the other posters who seem to want to talk about 'tone wood'!

Who was it that hijacked the thread into the 'wood' debate again? I wonder...

The first mention of it is in the 4th post on page 2.

The funny thing is that I agree with you on a lot of the stuff you post, and you're right to be sceptical. But don't get back on the same old tired hobby-horse when the thread was *not* about that. (And nor is this post .)

It's good to be sceptical. It's bad to be so sceptical that you're also willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater and ignore evidence when it proves you wrong.

I'm sure I have hobby-horses too, by the way.

See what I mean, Legionreturns? Some people just can't let a thing lie.

ICBM · April 2018

Three-ColourSunburst said:

See what I mean, Legionreturns? Some people just can't let a thing lie.

You really are an idiot aren't you.

NelsonP · April 2018

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Legionreturns said:

This thread might as well be closed. Every time we bring it back to the original topic some knob end derails it back to tone wood again. Bore off 3cs ffs...

I'm just responding to all the other posters who seem to want to talk about 'tone wood'! (Sticky fiddle, ICBM, crunchman, sporky, NelsonP, John_P, UnclePsychosis, Gagaryn.)

What you are effectively saying that others can post whatever nonsense they please about 'tone wood', but I have no right of reply.

Why not just post in the original tone wood thread instead and keep this one for discussion of ridiculously expensive cables.

At the risk of (slightly?) derailing the thread again and talking of cognitive bias, this is worth a read and explains quite a lot:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/14/humanbehaviour

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Perhaps the main point to remember is that they all form a part of a 'system', with all components of that system contributing to the sound.

Indeed (and without a hint of irony) that's why it's called a hi-fi system

TTony · April 2018

@Three-ColourSunburst ;

Enough now.

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