Some comments from a vintage guitar dealer...

darthed1981

Bridgehouse said:

StuartMac290 said:

But again I have to ask, what does it achieve? What did we achieve here? How does chasing an expert in vintage guitars away enhance the forum in any way? He has a highly successful business. If he felt by participating in this forum his business interests might be harmed, what does that do for the members here? I just don't see the point.

I think you could argue that apart from the “help me out it’s not working” threads then actually there’s very little point to a lot of the threads here. 

Do we really need 50 threads on the Gibson bankruptcy/debt/true historics or yet another joe B thread? Does it achieve anything? 

Mike joined and made a pretty bold statement. The forum gave a mixed reaction to that. Partly because there’s been a lot of threads highlighting where vintage purchases have gone wrong - it’s always been a hot potato. A lot of members here will never touch a vintage guitar as they see it as too risky. 

Given the history - if a vintage dealer joins and in a thread they start says they are going to set the record straight and add some expertise on a subject that they think is missing here then there is going to be some heated debate on the subject. That’s just the way it is.

My view is that our greatest asset as a forum is the fact that in many subjects we show a huge degree of balance. I’d love to have seen this in this thread, but we didn’t quite get it right. 

I disagreed with Mike on his stance that there is no expertise here. I also disagreed with the bullish “he’s hawking a stolen guitar, the rotter” view too. And, I disagree with the self-flagellation “we are so bad and it’s so embarrassing that we chase every dealer ever out of dodge”.

Come on, balance guys, balance. 

Mike should be given a chance on the forums. Not in this thread - but in any topic he joins in on. 

Similarly, you lot need to go easy on the pitchforks.

And, you also really need to stop with the “we are such an embarrassment” - compared with most of the internet we are tea drinking ladies who lunch. 

There’s more hyperbole in this thread from all sides than I’ve seen for a long time. Chill. Give Mike a chance. Don’t demonise him. And have some pride in the great things that happen on this forum. It’s an amazing place that does some brilliant things. 

A lot of wisdom here from @Bridgehouse

I have to echo the statement about balance, normally and very unlike much of the rest of the internet I think we do mostly do follow what should be the internet's only rule: talk to everyone as if they are there with you in person.  The meet ups/jams etc, plus the fact we are all musicians and its inherently a small world, helps.

A debate on something like this (and as I stated earlier a vintage guitar would be a major investment for me I'd probably never make) can be really interesting, bring out different points of view and leave us all with more open minds and smiles.  I'm guessing most people are not clicking out of here smiling, and that's sad.

It could also have been so much worse, on a lot of forums there would be dozens of edited and deleted posts in this thread full of invective by now.

TTony

timhulio said:

I remembered something similar happening on TGP a few years back. TGP wasn't as abrasive as this place, but it got to the stage when they actually banned criticism of certain brands for fear of being sued. 

So you're blissfully ignorant @timhulio of the number of times that we, as admins  of the site,  have been threatened with legal action due to the dumb comments that some people here thing are worthy of posting?

Dumb, as in  defamatory to another person and/or business?

And the amount of time that we then have to spend defending ourselves and, by extension, the person who posted the comment.


Cheers.

TTony

jf122 said:

TTony said:

TTony said:

JerkMoans said:

It honestly reminds me of being back in primary school when a couple of kids would have a dust-up over something, and everyone else would gather in a big circle chanting 'scrap, scrap, scrap' until the teacher tasked with maintaining a semblance of order happened by and everyone legged it.

That I suppose is where you, @TTony and the crew come in

I have been keeping a casual eye on the thread, mainly as a first line of defence against us getting sued!



Just embarrassing really.

@timhulio @jf122 ;

What, in my post above, did you consider so funny as to be lol-worthy?

It’s strange that you seem to be more concerned with that Tony than posts where someone calls everyone “losers”. 

Has someone upset you  by calling you names @jf122?

My question remains - explain why you thought my post was lol-worthy.

joeyowen

mrkb said:

joeyowen said:

I've just realised the problem.  We should have known...

https://www.ft.com/content/3be49734-29cb-11e6-83e4-abc22d5d108c

What’s the problem, that you have access to the FT and us poor plebs can’t read the article?






in all seriousness, what is a brief summary of your linked article? 

Do you not have access? It was just a Google search. 

"

Britain has had enough of experts, says Gove

"

jf122

TTony said:

jf122 said:

TTony said:

TTony said:

JerkMoans said:

It honestly reminds me of being back in primary school when a couple of kids would have a dust-up over something, and everyone else would gather in a big circle chanting 'scrap, scrap, scrap' until the teacher tasked with maintaining a semblance of order happened by and everyone legged it.

That I suppose is where you, @TTony and the crew come in

I have been keeping a casual eye on the thread, mainly as a first line of defence against us getting sued!



Just embarrassing really.

@timhulio @jf122 ;

What, in my post above, did you consider so funny as to be lol-worthy?

It’s strange that you seem to be more concerned with that Tony than posts where someone calls everyone “losers”. 

Has someone upset you  by calling you names @jf122?

My question remains - explain why you thought my post was lol-worthy.

No, he referred to a “bunch of losers”.

My question remains - why is that comment ignored but you focus on people lol’ing your post, where there could be any number of reasons for it? Maybe they did it accidentally or they just find you particularly amusing Tony.

TTony

Thanks for the non-answer @jf122.

You clearly have the balls for (what you erroneously think is) an anonymous action, but not the balls to explain it when called on it.

Top man.

Kalimna

Perhaps 'lol'ing can be seen as a personal sarcastic/snide comment. Whereas 'bunch of losers' is more of a generic, group critiscism. Especially when 'lol'ing against a serious point.

BloodEagle

Maybe I called you a loser accidentally? Maybe theres a grain of truth in it. Who cares, its a nice day, go out for a walk or something.

jf122

BloodEagle said:

Maybe I called you a loser accidentally?

Weren’t you the one moaning about bullying?

jf122

TTony said:

Thanks for the non-answer @jf122.

You clearly have the balls for (what you erroneously think is) an anonymous action, but not the balls to explain it when called on it.

Top man.

I lol’d your post because I found it amusing. Care to answer my question now?

BloodEagle

I dont think I moaned, I just mentioned it. Oh well, whatever, nevermind

digitalscream

Seems to me that someone has forgotten rule #1, and also forgotten who makes that determination.

Kalimna

And how long before Godwins Law is invoked?

jf122

digitalscream said:

Seems to me that someone has forgotten rule #1, and also forgotten who makes that determination.

Me I assume? So no one else in this thread has? Just me alone? Okay I can see how things work here. Please delete my ‘membership’. 

Kalimna

*thud* - the sound of pram toys hitting the floor.

BloodEagle

Just so you know, it was me who loled your flounce post @jf122

soma1975

Don't want people to talk shit about you? Don't make your first post dismissing everyone's knowledge and setting yousefl up as Honest Mike the Guitar Yoda. 

jf122

BloodEagle said:

Just so you know, it was me who loled your flounce post @jf122

Just so you know you’re a stupid cunt.

BloodEagle

Oh Im all shaken up now, jesus how horrible of you. Glad youre not getting wound up by any of this though

Kalimna

soma1975 said:

Don't want people to talk shit about you? Don't make your first post dismissing everyone's knowledge and setting yousefl up as Honest Mike the Guitar Yoda. 

Yes Mike did indeed dismiss everyones knowledge, as this quote from the OP shows

'I think this is a great forum, an excellent resource with some very knowledgeable people on here.'

He also talks about the need for balance and the ease of posting flippant comments. As this thread continues to demonstrate.