Oh Dear - A very sad story

guitars4you

Just been offered a guitar - and this is how the story progressed

'I have a Gibson Guitar for sale' is how the conversation started - 'I believe it is a 335, or an ES335 semi hollow '- 'I've had it for over 45 years and it was over 10 years old when I purchased' - Good news so far I'm thinking

So I ask if it has any serial number and he can't find one - rear of headstock or on the orange label - No number

So I'm now asking questions to try and ascertain what it might be - So does it have dot inlays on the fingerboard or 'oblong block style' - Dot inlays he tells me - So I'm starting to get excited - Then he tells me 'yes dot inlays on a maple fingerboard' - I immediately question this - Yes Maple he tells me - I gave it to John Birch in the 1970's to customise - UUUUUUUURRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It now has 6 knobs - vol + tone  - It has another pick-up in the middle position

I dare not ask any more - He doesn't understand my negative thought pattern as he believed the customised work should be a plus point - I've seen so many bad JB mods over the years that have destroyed any value on such old guitars

Bottom line is he will try and bring it over to me sometime - He has no PC or computer so can't/won't do any pics - so not sure where this will go next - But huge differential on valuation between what it might have been worth and what it is worth now

Did not even get round to chatting about original PAF's etc etc etc as he has no inkling as to what what else has been changed etc

Gagaryn

We need to see photos when you get your hands on it. :-)

guitarfishbay

Guitars are tools at the end of the day.  They did the mods because that's what they wanted at the time.

jimmyguitar

It’s a huge shame but if it looks cool and plays well it’ll be a nice guitar to own for someone. I’d consider it if the price is right 

HarrySeven

guitars4you said:

Just been offered a guitar - and this is how the story progressed...

I gave it to John Birch in the 1970's to customise - It now has 6 knobs - vol + tone  - It has another pick-up in the middle position

I've seen so many bad JB mods over the years that have destroyed any value on such old guitars

Ah, this sounds perfect! I do love a bit of John Birch bodgery.

I have 3 or 4 guitars which he worked his "magic" on, back in the day...you can tell 'em a mile off!

Gagaryn

Whatever you do, please make sure that nobody has inadvertently damaged the serial number while removing a sticker... 

jimmyguitar

Aside from the maple board he could be describing an original Switchmaster?

WezV

Gagaryn said:

Whatever you do, please make sure that nobody has inadvertently damaged the serial number while removing a sticker... 

actually - its just like the sort of thing John Birch would have done!


Looking forward to pics

Guitar_Slinger

I had lessons from somebody who played a 1963 Strat in a band in the 70s. He said the original bridge made it go badly out of tune if a string snapped mid-song, so he got it changed for one which he said knocked "a few grand" off its value. But as @guitarfishbay said, it was a mod to make it playable to a musician on tour.

ICBM

guitarfishbay said:

They did the mods because that's what John Birch told them they wanted at the time.

FTFY.

Guitar_Slinger said:

I had lessons from somebody who played a 1963 Strat in a band in the 70s. He said the original bridge made it go badly out of tune if a string snapped mid-song, so he got it changed for one which he said knocked "a few grand" off its value. But as @guitarfishbay said, it was a mod to make it playable to a musician on tour.

So why didn’t he just set the bridge flat to the body? Not only non-destructive, far easier...

That’s something that seems to be common to quite a lot of damage to guitars - not only the wrong solution, but more difficult than the right solution.

p90fool

guitarfishbay said:

Guitars are tools at the end of the day.  They did the mods because that's what they wanted at the time.

John Birch quite deliberately vandalised lots of good guitars just to piss people off. He swapped out pre-CBS Strat pickguards and set fire to them because they burned entertainingly, telling the owners they "didn't need that old shite". 

I don't know if he's still alive, I hope not. 

WezV

p90fool said:

guitarfishbay said:

Guitars are tools at the end of the day.  They did the mods because that's what they wanted at the time.

John Birch quite deliberately vandalised lots of good guitars just to piss people off. He swapped out pre-CBS Strat pickguards and set fire to them because they burned entertainingly, telling the owners they "didn't need that old shite". 

I don't know if he's still alive, I hope not. 

That’s maybe a bit far

he had very definite ideas about what guitars should be like.  

For him it was all about stable materials, robust finishes,  and “versatile” wiring

he clearly didn’t rate Fender or Gibson at all, and it shows in his work on them and how his own features went the opposite way

sev112

Gagaryn said:

Whatever you do, please make sure that nobody has inadvertently damaged the serial number while removing a sticker... 

you mean don’t damage the sticker while removing the serial number surely

guitars4you

jimmyguitar said:

Aside from the maple board he could be describing an original Switchmaster?

no it sounds like one of JB's pick-ups in the middle - multiflux thing or whatever they called them

guitars4you

early days yet on this, if/when anything happens - It is never going to be original again (depends who is selling it !!!!!!!!!!!) but could consider another change to the fingerboard back to rosewood to put some credibility back into it - otherwise I'll need to see it first

I've seen many JB mods were he lacquered a rosewood board, new nut, bridge, pick-ups etc 

WezV

guitars4you said:

jimmyguitar said:

Aside from the maple board he could be describing an original Switchmaster?

no it sounds like one of JB's pick-ups in the middle - multiflux thing or whatever they called them

there will be some  value there. 

Its not unusual to see a pair of pickups going for near the same as a JB guitar with a pair of pickups in it.. Hyperflux are the  most common,  Magnums are worth a fair bit more.

sev112

Who is this JB guy? Any threads to explain?

jdgm

sev112 said:

Who is this JB guy? Any threads to explain?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_(luthier)

He passed away in 2000.
He wasn't as bad as some here have made him out to be.....IMO.

guitars4you

sev112 said:

Who is this JB guy? Any threads to explain?

John Birch - Big well known builder from Birmingham from the 60's and 70's - Tony Iommi, Slade etc all had work done by him - He built his own design guitars include many odd ball models like The Super Yob by Slade - Had his own designed bridge, pick-ups etc - But as a repairer he often brought such ideas on to what we now know as vintage guitars - Granted they had no/little value at the time - He even lacquered rosewood fingerboards

Not sure if he is an FB member or not, but at a Manchester Guitar Show 2/3 years ago a customer showed me a pic of an early 60's Strat that had had the rosewood board replaced with maple 

ICBM

guitars4you said:

It is never going to be original again (depends who is selling it !!!!!!!!!!!) but could consider another change to the fingerboard back to rosewood to put some credibility back into it

Alvin Lee Big Red tribute conversion?

WezV

read the first page of the catalogue for a good idea of JB's approach to guitar building.  check the last page for his suggested mods to your favourite models
http://vintage.catalogs.free.fr/johnbirch.pdf

I own a factory one, which is very well made - but not your standard guitar.  his mods and custom work are often a lot rougher