Clapton fans ...

Boromedic

soma1975 said:

I think he's a colossal twat, but not racist. Bloke played Nelson Mandela's birthday ffs. 

Obviously I respect your opinion fella, however I wondered why you thought so strongly he was a twat?

Also he was drunk and off his face during that gig, who's to say someone hadn't had his ear for the entire day and twisted his mind. Bloke was fucked up beyond all recognition, and in a really dark selfish mind space. He is many things but he clearly is not a racist, I'm not excusing his obviously disgraceful comments but who knows the context this was done in.

soma1975

He was a twat for the way he treated women and his whole life. 

I wasnt referring to the accusations of racism.  

Boromedic

Yeah, sorry the racism part wasn't in referral to you fella. 

He did do a lot of bad things in his pre clean days that's for sure, as to afterwards I can't say. I guess his experiences with his family had made him very bitter towards things like that. I saw the story as a great redemption tale though, whatever his past mistakes might have been, and it may be clever editing, he certainly seems to have made up for it in some ways. 

soma1975

Yep absolutely. But everyone has got a story  it doesn’t excuse appalling behaviour. Just goes some ways to explaining it. The list of people he blew out or let down or walked out on is amazing. Yardbirds not blues enough quit. bluesbreakers too blues. Quit. Cream too successful and critically acclaimed. Quit. Systematically dismantle your best mate’s marriage in order to steal his girl. Finally get her and treat her like shit. Etc etc etc. 

He seems to have understood how many people he hurt once he became sober and actively tried to make amends and be a better person which is to be commended. 

I say say all this as a huge Clapton fan btw. 

Biggest surprise to me was how how drunk he was through the 80s. I thought he was already clean then but he was just clean of smack. 

Boromedic

Yeah man he was raging during some of them 80's concerts with Phil Collins. One of my fave Layla live versions is one of them, he seems on fire!!

soma1975

Him at Knebworth where he rocks up in a pink Armani suit is the coolest thing ever. And Mark Knopfler looks like a sack of potatoes next to him.  

EC was amazing that day. 

jonnyburgo

not_the_dj said:

Life in 12 Bars.....excellent. I enjoyed it at the cinema. Worth it for those that missed it

I think he's been to more than 12

thegummy

It's always an interesting question - how much does a musician's personality affect your enjoyment of their music?

At one extreme do they have to share every opinion you have in order to like the music? At the other extreme could you enjoy mad angry racist music if it was musically good?

A lot of musicians don't speak about their views - is your enjoyment of the music you currently like in constant risk of being destroyed by a life long favourite coming out as a homophobe one day on Twitter?

Recently I've been wanting to get into the Smiths but the things I hear morrissey has said (worse than Clapton by far) put me off - but should it?

It's a weird cognitive dissonance and why companies do sponsorships. We generally want to agree with people whose work we enjoy.

soma1975

I like the idea of separating the art from the artist. These guys don't have a thing on Byron, Da Vinci or Carravagio.

But at the same time I actively shout at the TV/computer every time people praising Chris Brown or working with him. 

And Billy Corgan's last decade or so of idiocy has made me listen to the Pumpkins a lot less. 

It would be difficult to get into the Smiths now for the first time knowing what you do because back in the day one assumed he was being pithy and ironic whereas now we all know he's a hateful bigoted bellend. 

lovestrat74

Whatever your opinions on him this docu is definitely worth a watch 

soma1975

Absolutely. 

mr-mac

I guess if we think we get their music and are in tune with what they do we'd like to think that comes from being similar in life or as people too.  talking in general rather than about Clapton.

I'd happily stop being a fan if i found out person was the biggest cock ever and treated people badly.  because i have morals and am willing, unlike a lot of people these days, to actually stand up and be counted against abhorant behaviour, treatment of people, homophobic, racist etc.  even if it means standing in between said cock and person they are giving a hard time.  So i am certainly not gonna let some rich star get away with similar behaviour and just keep on being a fan as if it never happened.  Stuff that.

EricTheWeary

thegummy said:

It's always an interesting question - how much does a musician's personality affect your enjoyment of their music?

At one extreme do they have to share every opinion you have in order to like the music? At the other extreme could you enjoy mad angry racist music if it was musically good?

A lot of musicians don't speak about their views - is your enjoyment of the music you currently like in constant risk of being destroyed by a life long favourite coming out as a homophobe one day on Twitter?

Recently I've been wanting to get into the Smiths but the things I hear morrissey has said (worse than Clapton by far) put me off - but should it?

It's a weird cognitive dissonance and why companies do sponsorships. We generally want to agree with people whose work we enjoy.

I always think of Ike Turner. History has decided he was a wife beating drug addict but he could have been remembered as a pioneer of rocknroll, discoverer of B.B. King, producer, guitarist. 

The Clapton racist thing we’ve been around a few times, it helped create Rock Against Racism and Charles Shaar Murray likes to bring it up from time to time. It was a long time ago, he was pissed and it’s been over balanced by any number of deeds ( like the Crossroads foundation) and relationships with black artists. I’ve worked with sex offenders, violent offenders, drug addicts - I’m a great believer that change is possible and Clappo isn’t a terrible example of that. 

Boromedic

Amen to that @EricTheWeary ;

hotpickups

I think what we have to take on board is that we propel these rock stars to cosmic even god like status. It won't take long under the influence of drugs and alcohol to actually start to believe that they are? They are just normal guys and gals like the rest of us who just get swept away with it all and then come down with a massive car crash when they're not in favour anymore. It would be enough to drive me to drink and drugs tbh.

As for the racist remarks and the womanising, disgusting and aborent it is to hear now but it was kind of excepted in the 70s. God knows why it was but it was. Not all good times at all the 70s in some respects  

richardhomer

One of the people who was in the audience at the BFI was Patti - she has clearly found herself able to forgive EC - and if you watch the film it was her who left George Harrison for EC, many years after EC first tried to win her from Harrison. It’s well documented that Harrison was less than an ideal husband to her. It was all very messy and no one involved should be particularly proud of their behaviour, by the sound of things.

Ultimately the question is can a person admit their wrong-doings and seek forgiveness? It seems to me that EC has had quite a journey in terms of personal development - and seems genuine in his recognition of his past behaviour. For those who stand in judgement - may be we should ask whether it’s right not to accept this? None of us live blameless lives - but trying to make things right is brave - and I think deserves some respect.

Boromedic

Definitely agree with the above which is why I saw it as like a redemption story to be honest. To see the devastation of losing Conor, and the fact something far less awful would have been enough to wreck his sobriety and be the end of him, was genuinely heartbreaking. The fact he came out the other side and has done all he has is testament to the fact he is deep down, a good guy. The scenes with his family at the end were also very moving, I wish him all the best. I've certainly done plenty of shit in my younger life I'm not proud of, I'd be surprised if others hadn't.

I also think it was extremely brave of him to allow such a bright light to be shone on his dark days, not too many people would be so willing to admit their shortcomings. Even less would allow it to be shown in public.

soma1975

Yep I agree with all of that above. What a journey. 

richardhomer

Someone I know worked with a woman who’s husband was made redundant and ended up working as a car park attendant. On three consecutive days - EC parked there. On the third, he explained to EC that his wife was a massive fan - and that he’d bought a birthday card and wondered if he’d be prepared to sign it? EC said he’d be delighted and asked if they were going to any of his Albert Hall gigs? The husband explained he’d been made redundant so they wouldn’t be on that occasion. EC asked if he could take the card away and give it to him the next day?

The next day - he returned the card in a sealed envelope. When his wife opened it on her birthday, it contained two tickets for a box at the RAH. 

Probably not the action of someone who’s a shit....

Boromedic

Great story.

Kind of off topic, but that reminds me of George Michael. People had lots of judgemental comments to make about his lifestyle and life choices but after he passed away, lots of stories emerged about the sheer generosity of the guy and just how much help he had given others. Clearly Eric is of a similar mould, none of it advertised as such, just decent people deep down.