Handwound v machine wound pickups? (specifically Fender Custom Shop)

PhilKing

Funkfingers said:

PEDANTRY CORNER 

Unless some home hobby builder is using an old Mouli grater to rotate the bobbin, there is no such thing as a hand wound pickup. They are machine wound and hand guided.

Zhangbucker actually does offer pure hand wound pickups where he winds them with the coil still and takes the wire around them (http://www.zhangbucker.com/humbuckers.html).  I have a set of his Strateles and they sound like a grand piano note.  Not always what you want, but for a lot of things it is great.

Lebarque

I've always found hand-wound strat pickups to be warmer, bouncier and more characterful. Although it could all be in my head...

iain.reverb

guitars4you said:

I've said this many times before, regarding a potential custom ordered Custom Shop guitar, to your spec - It is like shutting your eyes, dreaming what you want it to be, then after waiting 6-8 months for it to arriving, hoping the finished article will match your dream

Between the various dealers in the UK there is often enough good stock around to find a nice guitar - In trying many different models, you'll find they are all the same, with variations - Some with more subtle differences than others - I've just had arrived 4 x 64 Strats - all identical spec - Are they all the same regarding feel and tone ? - Nearly but subtle differences - Same pick-ups etc, so the only variation is the wood - weight is only a couple of lbs either way - Slight different pitch when you tap them 

My point is that you can request the neck shape you want, the pick-ups, the frets etc etc - I guarantee you won't get a bad guitar, but will it be the one that matches your dream ? - And if it doesn't then nothing you can do about it

If you found a nice guitar in one store, and based your custom ordered guitar on that one guitar, but say a variation in colour etc, it won't be the same as what you have tried - It will be close but not the same - The more C/Shop models you try, the more you'll realise many are similar but they are all different - You just don't know which you are getting until it arrives

Most of the UK dealers will gladly assist on a custom order, but if it was me I'd buy what I can get my hands on now as I know what the finished article is - And if it is the one that ticks the boxes then it doesn't matter what the pick-ups are, spec wise, but you know your ears like 'em

This is 100% true. I've lost count of the amount of custom orders I have done for customers, that have been underwhelmed by the results. 

Jonathanthomas83

guitars4you said:

I've said this many times before, regarding a potential custom ordered Custom Shop guitar, to your spec - It is like shutting your eyes, dreaming what you want it to be, then after waiting 6-8 months for it to arriving, hoping the finished article will match your dream

Between the various dealers in the UK there is often enough good stock around to find a nice guitar - In trying many different models, you'll find they are all the same, with variations - Some with more subtle differences than others - I've just had arrived 4 x 64 Strats - all identical spec - Are they all the same regarding feel and tone ? - Nearly but subtle differences - Same pick-ups etc, so the only variation is the wood - weight is only a couple of lbs either way - Slight different pitch when you tap them 

My point is that you can request the neck shape you want, the pick-ups, the frets etc etc - I guarantee you won't get a bad guitar, but will it be the one that matches your dream ? - And if it doesn't then nothing you can do about it

If you found a nice guitar in one store, and based your custom ordered guitar on that one guitar, but say a variation in colour etc, it won't be the same as what you have tried - It will be close but not the same - The more C/Shop models you try, the more you'll realise many are similar but they are all different - You just don't know which you are getting until it arrives

Most of the UK dealers will gladly assist on a custom order, but if it was me I'd buy what I can get my hands on now as I know what the finished article is - And if it is the one that ticks the boxes then it doesn't matter what the pick-ups are, spec wise, but you know your ears like 'em

DanR said:

I've order guitars from a few different brands to exactly what I wanted and I own none of them now.

My off the shelf CS Tele has been with me a few years and I'd never change it.

iain.reverb said:

This is 100% true. I've lost count of the amount of custom orders I have done for customers, that have been underwhelmed by the results. 

Thanks all, you've really helped me out with those thoughts. I think I'm gonna go off the shelf (Custom Shop) as I've managed to get my hands on it and I know I like it! Maybe this is the question I should have asked instead!

Philly_Q

I totally agree that you're more likely to find a "keeper" by shopping around and buying off the shelf, but sticking with the Fender Custom Shop, if you want, say, a '60s spec Strat with a rosewood board but a 10/56 V profile neck, or - like me - a hardtail with a '70s headstock and '54 U neck, you're pretty unlikely to ever find one in a shop.

I ordered mine and it's not perfect, it's not the best Strat I've ever owned or played, but I'm still very happy with the way it turned out.

guitars4you

Philly_Q said:

I totally agree that you're more likely to find a "keeper" by shopping around and buying off the shelf, but sticking with the Fender Custom Shop, if you want, say, a '60s spec Strat with a rosewood board but a 10/56 V profile neck, or - like me - a hardtail with a '70s headstock and '54 U neck, you're pretty unlikely to ever find one in a shop.

I ordered mine and it's not perfect, it's not the best Strat I've ever owned or played, but I'm still very happy with the way it turned out.

agree - if you want 'different' spec sheet, then custom orders is probably the only way to go - Especially if you want different neck profile, finish etc - You won't get a bad guitar but will it be the one ? - You'll never know until it arrives

There are stories about regarding Jeff Beck and John Mayer - Both having had masterbuilt models built for them - Jeff was always preferring his existing white version and not finding any new builds quite right - he now has a reverse headstock model - J Mayer liked his guitar but not the colour and asked for the same guitar but in another colour - Guess what, it wasn't as nice for him as the 1st option

axisus

Handwound - Marketing rubbish if you ask me. Fleecing suckers of more money.

impmann

axisus said:

Handwound - Marketing rubbish if you ask me. Fleecing suckers of more money.

Hmmm... disagree. I agree that the terminology upsets pedants. But unless you work in the Nuclear Fuels Industry, pedantry isn't necessarily an attractive attribute.

Just like those who reckon a stock Squier CV will sound better than a CS Strat, its all just opinion. But in my opinion, its not "fleecing suckers" - and replacing the pickups in my guitars with "marketing rubbish" has improved them dramatically. So much so that the original Fender pickup from my ancient 1970s Tele went in the BIN.

If we all liked the same things, it would be boring.

p90fool

We all DO like the same things and it IS boring - the argument is about how we get there. 

Whitecat

One thing to note about Fender - perhaps @guitars4you can confirm - I thought you actually had to go out of your way to get machine-wound pickups on a Custom Shop build. I don't know if they charge extra for them, but it's something you have to specify I believe, otherwise you get "hand-wound" (whatever that means) "by default" (in whatever model you choose).

Sporky

PhilKing said:

Zhangbucker actually does offer pure hand wound pickups where he winds them with the coil still and takes the wire around them (http://www.zhangbucker.com/humbuckers.html). 

JInkies.

That must take a while!

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

One thing to note about Fender - perhaps @guitars4you can confirm - I thought you actually had to go out of your way to get machine-wound pickups on a Custom Shop build. I don't know if they charge extra for them, but it's something you have to specify I believe, otherwise you get "hand-wound" (whatever that means) "by default" (in whatever model you choose).

option is available for either - extra for hand wound

Whitecat

guitars4you said:

Whitecat said:

One thing to note about Fender - perhaps @guitars4you can confirm - I thought you actually had to go out of your way to get machine-wound pickups on a Custom Shop build. I don't know if they charge extra for them, but it's something you have to specify I believe, otherwise you get "hand-wound" (whatever that means) "by default" (in whatever model you choose).

option is available for either - extra for hand wound

ah, OK, thanks - that's not what someone else had told me, appreciate the confirmation from something much closer to the horse's mouth!

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

guitars4you said:

Whitecat said:

One thing to note about Fender - perhaps @guitars4you can confirm - I thought you actually had to go out of your way to get machine-wound pickups on a Custom Shop build. I don't know if they charge extra for them, but it's something you have to specify I believe, otherwise you get "hand-wound" (whatever that means) "by default" (in whatever model you choose).

option is available for either - extra for hand wound

ah, OK, thanks - that's not what someone else had told me, appreciate the confirmation from something much closer to the horse's mouth!

massive al a carte menu of options - some aren't even listed - many pick up options are exclusive to Custom Shop Guitars and not for sale as after market options

OilCityPickups

axisus said:

Handwound - Marketing rubbish if you ask me. Fleecing suckers of more money.

'Handwound is better for everything' is, in my own opinion, not strictly true. 'Scatterwound produce more top end, desirable for some pickups, particularly Fender style' is closer to the truth. 

lasermonkey

Sporky said:

PhilKing said:

Zhangbucker actually does offer pure hand wound pickups where he winds them with the coil still and takes the wire around them (http://www.zhangbucker.com/humbuckers.html). 

JInkies.

That must take a while!

I used to completely hand-wind transformers at my previous job. 1000 turns likely isn't much compared to a pickup, but I remember it taking a considerable amount of time and keeping track of the number of turns was a nightmare!

guitars4you

lasermonkey said:

I used to completely hand-wind transformers at my previous job. 1000 turns likely isn't much compared to a pickup, but I remember it taking a considerable amount of time and keeping track of the number of turns was a nightmare!

especially if the phone rang, or someone asked you if you want a coffee

springhead

951, 952, 953, ring ring!, "oh bugger".

Whitecat

guitars4you said:

Whitecat said:

guitars4you said:

Whitecat said:

One thing to note about Fender - perhaps @guitars4you can confirm - I thought you actually had to go out of your way to get machine-wound pickups on a Custom Shop build. I don't know if they charge extra for them, but it's something you have to specify I believe, otherwise you get "hand-wound" (whatever that means) "by default" (in whatever model you choose).

option is available for either - extra for hand wound

ah, OK, thanks - that's not what someone else had told me, appreciate the confirmation from something much closer to the horse's mouth!

massive al a carte menu of options - some aren't even listed - many pick up options are exclusive to Custom Shop Guitars and not for sale as after market options

If you do a Masterbuilt can you spec out custom pickups entirely? Like tell them you want A5 scatterwounds with staggered poles and approximately 9k...? Or does it not quite work that specifically?

Sporky

lasermonkey said:

I used to completely hand-wind transformers at my previous job. 1000 turns likely isn't much compared to a pickup, but I remember it taking a considerable amount of time and keeping track of the number of turns was a nightmare!

I had to hand-wind some toroidal inductors for a DIY Class-T amp. Probably only 30-40 turns each but I wanted to kill something by the end of it.