Comparison: Gibson R8 vs Tokai LS150

SteveF

So I thought it might be good to do a comparison between the new R8 and my 2017 Tokai LS150F.  Forums are littered with Tokai owners claiming that their guitars are amazing value for money and match up with the best Gibsons, and now I have both I thought some might be interested in a comparison. Perhaps someone who missed out on the R8 deal, didn’t fancy spending that amount on a guitar, or doesn’t like the VOS finish may be interested in a Tokai.  

From what I understand, and anyone who knows more than me, feel free to chip in with your knowledge, the LS150 is roughly a ’59 RI spec, as opposed to the ’58 spec of the R8. The main difference between a ‘58 and ‘59 reissue is the flame top and neck profile, however, these 2017 R8s appear to have a slimmer neck profile than a usual ’58 and it appears closer to the ’59 profile. So apart from the plain top and VOS finish on the R8, the specs are very similar on these guitars. 

Anyway, this thread would be worthless without pics, and there are going to be a lot of them! Let’s have a look at the guitars we’re going to look at:  

 

Let’s start at the beginning then and look at what comes with the guitars: 

 

Gibson: 

 

Nice brown leather(?) hardcase with gold hardware. 

 

THAT badge. 

 

Pink inner! Decent padding around and below the guitar, and inside the lid. And a nice big pocket under the neck. 

 

In the case: some tags, a key for the case, warranty card, Certificate of Authenticity and a spare plastic switch cavity cover if you want to save the ounce that the metal Gibson Custom one weighs (why would you?!)

 

Tokai: 

 

Black tolexy material covered hardcase with a kind of tarnished brass hardware.

 

Maybe not quite as aspirational, but plenty are more than happy with this marque, me included. 

 

Lovely green velvety inner. Pocket slightly smaller than the Gibson case and slightly less padded but still feels pretty plush. 

 

The Tokai comes without the scratchplate attached, so it’s on the case. You’d have to drill your own holes though if you wanted it on.  I like this particular guitar without the plate, so in the case it shall stay.  Keys for the case and a truss rod tool included. 

 

And on to the guitars themselves: 

 

Let’s get this out of the way early – the headstock is often a bugbear for some when it comes to non-Gibson Les Paul type guitars. 

 

Classic Gibson “open book” headstock with a blank bell truss rod cover. I believe the nut is Nylon as is historically accurate. 

 

Not far off to be fair. This one was made for the UK market, so the “nipple” in the middle of the headstock’s top line changes it enough to get away with.  Some people wrongly think that the nipple indicates a Chinese or Korean Tokai, but Japanese made Tokais for the UK market are also this shape.  I don’t mind it at all and think this is probably the least “offensive” non-Gibson Les Paul headstock there is.  If it’s a deal breaker for you, you can always source a guitar from overseas, where open book headstocks are still available.  Not 100% on the nut material. 

 

The “Love Rock” instead of “Les Paul” puts some off too, but again, I think it looks just fine. 

 

The truss rod cover is the only bit I’m not keen on – I guess I can (and may yet) replace it with an aftermarket one. (As an aside, for those not au fait with Tokais, a good indicator of a guitar’s country of origin can be found here – MIJ Tokais usually have the two screws as pictured here, while Korean and Chinese ones normally have 3 screws). 

 

Gibson Deluxe tuners 

 

The Tokai has vintage style Kluson Tuners

 

Both guitars have 1 piece necks, no join near the headstock.

 

 

SteveF

And one piece backs – this one is the Tokai. 

And the Gibson – lovely grain. 

 

The badge again J

 

the Tokai’s fingerboard – Lovely dark rosewood, neat inlays and great fretwork. No fret end binding on here though. You can’t really see it, but the edges of the binding are lightly rolled and very comfy. 

 

The Gibson’s – a touch lighter.  The inlays are nice and neat too.  Rolled edges and fret end binding. A bit of aged effect on the binding here. 

 

A few pics to show the body – Tokai first. 

 

 

 

 

You can see the brass saddles on the Gotoh ABR1 bridge here.

 

Vintage type “tall” pickup rings. 

 

Shallow neck angle. 

 

 

SteveF

Gibson now – Photobombed by the Tokai in this one… 

 

 

You can see the aged hardware in this one. 

 

 

 

 

 

Gotoh hardware on the Tokai. 

 

Bridge screws retained by nuts on the Tokai so they don’t fall out

 

Brass saddles.  

 

 

 

Gibson tailpiece a touch heavier. 

 

And the bridge.

 

 

Tidy in here. 

 

Under the bridge pickup. The wiring is very tight so couldn’t get a sharp picture – label just says “Patent applied for”  

SteveF

And in the back. Bumblebee caps and some very tidy wiring. 

 

 

Inside the Tokai neck cavity – neck tenon peeping out J

 

Nice thick 1 piece top. You can just see the grain from the top continuing down inside.  Definitely not a veneer. 

 

Neck pickup.  That’s a bit of sponge you can see at the bottom, used to prevent the neck pickup slanting in the pickup ring as the screws and springs are quite long.  Don’t know a great deal about these pickups – they’re described as Tokai Vintage PAF Humbuckers

 

Bridge pickup. 

 

In the control cavity. Seems to be coated with shielding paint. The back of the cavity cover is shielded too.  CTS pots and Sprague orange drop caps.  Neat and tidy in here too. 

 

You can see here that the Tokai is slightly thicker at the edge than the Gibson.  (49.2mm vs 47.9 at the bottom centre).  Unfortunately I couldn’t get a read at the thickest part. 

 

Not a lot in it to be fair. 

 

And a few side by side shots

 

 

 

 

 

 

And a few measurements for the Nerds  

Gibson v Tokai

Weight: 8lb 10.3oz v 8lb 11.9oz

Neck thickness at 12thfret: 25.23mm v 24.97mm

Neck thickness at 1stfret: 22.85mm v 23.37mm

Width at nut: 43.0mm v 43.0mm

Width at 12thfret: 52.37mm v 52.15mm

Bridge pickup (measured at jack): 7.99k v 11.26k

Neck pickup: 7.97k v 7.42k 

Well, that took some time! I hope you found it even a little bit as interesting as I did. What really matters is how they play.  I would say that I do prefer the Gibson in terms of sound and playability.  The sound is better to my ears on the Gibson – The Tokai pickups are by no means bad, but I may try some different pickups in the Tokai to see if that evens things.  The Gibson pickups are really nice and definitely staying.  In terms of playability it is a lot closer. I still prefer the Gibson, but only slightly. The Tokai definitely punches above its weight. I would say that getting the R8 has actually made me appreciate just how good the Tokai really is.   

I did miss one major difference with the guitars above – the price.  As you all know, the R8 was a comparative steal at £2499 in the blowout deal, while the LS150 was bought new from The Little Guitar Shopin Birmingham last year for about £1500.  In a blind test, I wouldn’t put the difference at anywhere near a grand (or 2 grand, at the R8’s usual price!).   

Bottom line, if money was no object, I’d choose the R8, but if not then the Tokai is well worth the money.  I can’t imagine you’ll get closer to a reissue spec Les Paul for that sort of money. 

blobb

Nice comparison. I did a similar thing between a Tokai Cat's Eye and a luthier made parlor. Same conclusion, £400 Vs £2400 and although the Luthier wins on a money no object basis, the CE is 90% as good. I guess it's that extra 10% you pay for.

TA22GT

Nice post mate! Enjoyed the read.
I have those Tokai pickups in my Tokai ES158. If you lower the bridge pickup a fair bit itt actually sounds quite good!

Adamski

Yep if I’ve learned anything in guitar buying it’s that the extra 10% costs the most amount of money. It’s also totally worth it. 

Good, detailed comparison. Enjoyed that. Cheers! 

gringopig

.

duotone

Excellent job @SteveF ;

Schnozz

I would buy the Tokai and change the bridge pickup (or buy a calibrated set).

I had these and they didn't cost me £2,500...

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y373/Schnozzalee/P1080066_zpsflrg1bqq.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/lhoAAOSwEzxYUG9V/$_86.JPG
Flawless build quality and more Les Paul than a £3,000 PRS SC58.

I now have a Japanese Seventy Seven (Momose/Bacchus), which is a chambered R8 with custom wound pickups.

You don't need more than £1,500 for a good'un.

I played a Tokai Stratocaster last year and it was better than my Fender '57 AVRI and at half the price (couldn't give a monkeys about nitro vs poly), but I stick with G&L for the hardware, gun-oiled necks and flat radii.

JezWynd

Are you sure the Tokai is a one piece back? Don't know if my eyes are deceiving me but I'm seeing a join down the centre line.

SteveF

Cheers chaps. Glad someone was interested.  

that Yamaha gold top is a bit of alright, innit?!

thebreeze

What a great post!  Thank you.

JerkMoans

Cracking compare and contrast. Thank you.

Philly_Q

Very interesting comparison, nice work!

Rebar

I really enjoyed reading that. It was very informative. Thanks for taking the time to produce it. 

Boromedic

Cheers for that, very interesting to see them compared in more detail. Some lovely pictures too, enjoy!

Chalky

Thanks for your hard work in making such a detailed and fascinating comparison!

Iamnobody

Bloody got shots Sir!

JezWynd said:

Are you sure the Tokai is a one piece back? Don't know if my eyes are deceiving me but I'm seeing a join down the centre line.

Yes on a personal note I see a straight line as well.

This does suggest a two piece back - not that it matters - my Orville is a 3 piece back and I believe most standard Gibson and Fenders are multipiece these days.

Thanks for sharing OP. 

prlgmnr

These R8s all going for 2499 has had a weird effect on my perception of the relative value of £1500 or so LP alternatives.

Before I would have been all for the Tokai, Bacchus, Navigator, Edwards, 77s of the world, but now I'm thinking "give it a while and there will be a lot of r8s sloshing about the used market".

Gassage

@SteveF I almost bought that Tokai off Martin so many times it's untrue!