Car test drive accidents

Cols

heavyrocker said:

Cols said:

heavyrocker said:

Cols said:

CHrisP86 said:

Very money grabbing when surely they have to expect some wear and tear on the demo cars. 

Come on, kerbing an alloy is hardly fair wear and tear.  It’s damaging the car.

That’s what insurance is for. If there’s an excess they should make customers aware they can be liable. Or they should get a better policy.

Be serious, if you kerbed an alloy on your own car would you claim on the insurance?

No but I’m not in the business of selling cars and letting customers go out on test drives...

That’s probably a good thing.  If you were, and you ran it on the basis of taking out fully comprehensive zero-excess insurance for all customers to drive any car, and then claimed against for every £50 dent, you’d swiftly find yourself bankrupted by spiralling insurance premiums.

heavyrocker

Cols said:

heavyrocker said:

Cols said:

heavyrocker said:

Cols said:

CHrisP86 said:

Very money grabbing when surely they have to expect some wear and tear on the demo cars. 

Come on, kerbing an alloy is hardly fair wear and tear.  It’s damaging the car.

That’s what insurance is for. If there’s an excess they should make customers aware they can be liable. Or they should get a better policy.

Be serious, if you kerbed an alloy on your own car would you claim on the insurance?

No but I’m not in the business of selling cars and letting customers go out on test drives...

That’s probably a good thing.  If you were, and you ran it on the basis of taking out fully comprehensive zero-excess insurance for all customers to drive any car, and then claimed against for every £50 dent, you’d swiftly find yourself bankrupted by spiralling insurance premiums.

True, but then again a garage that makes petty claims against its customers for minor damage like kerbed wheels isn’t going to last long either.

DefaultM

That's unfortunate, but it's the cost of their particular business. They don't vet every person they let test drive, so they have to be prepared for some of them to be less than perfect drivers.
You'd hope they completed a risk assessment and made the conscious decision not to ask for signatures etc as they were prepared to take on the risk for more chance at sales. Otherwise they'd be asking people to pay based on absolutely no binding documentation.

A much smaller scale, but I once smashed some alcohol in a supermarket. I thought they'd make me pay, but they came over smiling and handed me more intact alcohol. 
When I worked in a cinema people would spill their drinks all over the place. We'd go clean it up and give them a new drink free of charge. We didn't say that actually they're going to have to pay for the seat cleaning. 

DefaultM

What do places like this do if someone comes along and accidentally crashes but the car is wrecked?
I don't have a clue, but I suspect it doesn't involve asking you to pay up; as they have insurance. Whereas for something small like this they probably wouldn't mind taking a chance on getting a bit of cash back? Send the manager in looking furious and see what happens.

At the end of the day if they've not asked you to sign anything then I don't see what they could do. It's not like a customer is about to step in to the car and they'd go "oh btw what happens if I crash? Please can you provide me with documentation that I can sign so that I take on the liability?". 

CHrisP86

For me, it’s all about the scale.

If I had crashed the car to the extent of it having real bodywork or mechanical damage then fair enough.

Apparently my liability would have been limited to the £500 excess in the insurance policy they never told me about...

But a car, on the forecourt advertised as a demo model, being thrashed around for three months by loads of customers and salesmen is going to get loads of little stone chips and other minor cosmetic condition issues. With the state of roads these days I think it is quite fair to say that alloys getting a bashing is quite common. 

To me it it really is the same as being handed a bill for petrol costs, a cost of trying to sell a car.

Anyway, I paid it on the day so it’s done. I’m just pleased that I’m not totally off in thinking the dealership were harsh and ultimately it has cost the company in the long run because it’s a brand of car I had brought in the past but never will again.  Certainly cost them more than £100.

ICBM

mart said:

Anybody else wondering if the salesman will get the dealership to charge this to their insurance while he quietly pockets the £100 he duped the test-driver into paying?

Or the dealership simply pockets the money and doesn't bother fixing the damage, because that's the demonstrator car - when they eventually sell it with numerous other dings and scrapes it won't make the slightest difference to the value.

CHrisP86 said:

But a car, on the forecourt advertised as a demo model, being thrashed around for three months by loads of customers and salesmen is going to get loads of little stone chips and other minor cosmetic condition issues. With the state of roads these days I think it is quite fair to say that alloys getting a bashing is quite common. 

To me it it really is the same as being handed a bill for petrol costs, a cost of trying to sell a car.

Exactly.

randella

CHrisP86 said:

But a car, on the forecourt advertised as a demo model, being thrashed around for three months by loads of customers and salesmen is going to get loads of little stone chips and other minor cosmetic condition issues.

If you're buying nearly-new (~9 months) then most of the dealer's stock will have come from hire fleets.  I spent weeks searching through dozens of gunmetal grey cars, all the same model (a couple had one digit different in the number plate), all scuffed and dinged beyond what I'd expect of a three-year-old car.

In the end I found a demo that'd been run by the salesman who took me out in it - absolutely pristine.  Not a mark on it anywhere, still smelled new inside, was a much nicer spec and colour, drove perfectly.

Of course, having not kerbed an alloy in ten years, I'd had this one ten days before I bashed the inside rear on a nasty speed humb/kerb combo at work.

C'est la vie and all that.

thermionic

ICBM said:

mart said:

Anybody else wondering if the salesman will get the dealership to charge this to their insurance while he quietly pockets the £100 he duped the test-driver into paying?

Or the dealership simply pockets the money and doesn't bother fixing the damage, because that's the demonstrator car - when they eventually sell it with numerous other dings and scrapes it won't make the slightest difference to the value.

Get a friend to go in next week for a test drive, then offer to buy it, but haggle the dealer down by £100 because of the scuffed wheel.

Sporky

I think if a garage kerbed my car's wheel while it was in for a service I'd expect them to fix it (or pay for it) so I don't think it's enormously unreasonable to expect you to cough up if you damage a demonstrator.

£100 sounds like more than a wheel refurb would cost though.

Bridgehouse

thermionic said:

ICBM said:

mart said:

Anybody else wondering if the salesman will get the dealership to charge this to their insurance while he quietly pockets the £100 he duped the test-driver into paying?

Or the dealership simply pockets the money and doesn't bother fixing the damage, because that's the demonstrator car - when they eventually sell it with numerous other dings and scrapes it won't make the slightest difference to the value.

Get a friend to go in next week for a test drive, then offer to buy it, but haggle the dealer down by £100 because of the scuffed wheel.

“Hello? Is that the bank? I’d like a £20k loan please. What’s it for? Someone on the Internet is wrong and I need to prove a point. Hello? Hello? Hello?”

HAL9000

Teetonetal said:

To be honest, most test drives tell you very little as it's normally a 10 min spin, though I guess it does stop you buying an absolute dog.

When I bought a Civic recently, I insisted on a bit of motorway and a reasonably steep hill. 
Took more time and distance than the dealer really wanted, but I'm spending what for me is a substantial amount of money and I want to get it right. 

ToneControl

I had a salesman crash the demo car on the way out of the parking lot
He thought the barrier had gone back into the ground, accelerated and hit it, then reversed and did it again, by which time my wife was screaming "let me out" and a few other things

Whilst she was crying back at the showroom, he asked if we still wanted to buy it

We got compensation for our injuries, I'm glad to say

richardhomer

Sporky said:

I think if a garage kerbed my car's wheel while it was in for a service I'd expect them to fix it (or pay for it) so I don't think it's enormously unreasonable to expect you to cough up if you damage a demonstrator.

£100 sounds like more than a wheel refurb would cost though.

This recently happened to my nephew’s car - for the second time. He photographed the wheels on their forecourt - before handing over the keys.

Sure enough - another scuffed alloy - which they tried to deny they’d done. He showed them the picture on his phone and eventually got them to accept it had happened while they were in charge of the car. They emailed him saying they’d repair it as ‘a gesture of goodwill’. He pinged one back saying they were ‘righting a wrong’ - nothing to do with goodwill....

It was a VW main dealer btw....

ICBM

Sporky said:

I think if a garage kerbed my car's wheel while it was in for a service I'd expect them to fix it (or pay for it) so I don't think it's enormously unreasonable to expect you to cough up if you damage a demonstrator.

Different situation - one is *your* property which *their* insurance covers while it's on their premises, and the other is *their* property which *their* insurance covers when it's being test-driven.

ie they are liable in both cases, not you - unless you signed a specific waiver otherwise.

Bridgehouse

Hattigol said:

Bridgehouse said:

Hattigol said:

This could lead on to a much MUCH worse discussion....

i.e. what would be the situation if you were borrowing someone's guitar and it got damaged whilst you had it? Horrible thought.

If I borrowed anyone’s gear and it got damaged whilst under my care I wouldn’t even hesitate to make good - either paying for repairs or whatever. 

Easily said. Even if it was an inherent issue with the guitar?

It's a '57 Strat. You take it out of the case, strum a C chord and the headstock snaps off.

You still pay?

Totally unbelievable. You said a Strat not a Les Paul. 

Sporky

ICBM said:

Sporky said:

I think if a garage kerbed my car's wheel while it was in for a service I'd expect them to fix it (or pay for it) so I don't think it's enormously unreasonable to expect you to cough up if you damage a demonstrator.

Different situation - one is *your* property which *their* insurance covers while it's on their premises, and the other is *their* property which *their* insurance covers when it's being test-driven.

ie they are liable in both cases, not you - unless you signed a specific waiver otherwise.

I try to take the "what if everyone acted this way" approach.

If I damage something that's my fault, and my responsibility to fix. 

heavyrocker

Sporky said:

ICBM said:

Sporky said:

I think if a garage kerbed my car's wheel while it was in for a service I'd expect them to fix it (or pay for it) so I don't think it's enormously unreasonable to expect you to cough up if you damage a demonstrator.

Different situation - one is *your* property which *their* insurance covers while it's on their premises, and the other is *their* property which *their* insurance covers when it's being test-driven.

ie they are liable in both cases, not you - unless you signed a specific waiver otherwise.

I try to take the "what if everyone acted this way" approach.

If I damage something that's my fault, and my responsibility to fix. 

But genuine accidents happen and that’s why we have insurance. If you caused £5k of damage would you expect to pay that? No, you’d expect the insurance to cover it. The fact there’s an excess is their problem. What if the excess was £1k, would you be happy to pay that (taking into account they didn’t make you aware of it)? Where would you draw the line?

Lodious

I totally mangled an alloy during a test drive. The sales guy gave me bad directions and I did't quite make an acute turn onto a main road. The noise was horrendous. He didn't say a word, and neither did I. I managed to get a quick look when we we got back to the garage and it was awful. They didn't charge me for the damage, and I did buy a car from them a few weeks later. 

ICBM

Sporky said:

I try to take the "what if everyone acted this way" approach.

If I damage something that's my fault, and my responsibility to fix. 

A very long time ago, I was in a guitar shop. It was when the first Ibanez Jems had just arrived in the UK - literally that morning apparently. One of the obviously well-known local characters came in, saw the Jem and took it down off the hanger, widdled away on it for a couple of minutes, then put it back and went off to chat to the staff. But he hadn't put it back quite properly, and as I watched from the other side of the shop, it slowly rotated in the hanger, then fell straight down - hitting two MusicMan basses on the rack below. The Jem vaulted halfway across the room and landed on the headstock, snapping it - and the two MusicMans in turn fell out of the hangers and hit the floor, damaging both of them. There was a rather stunned silence broken only by the vibration of bass strings .

If you were that guy, would you pay for a new neck for the Jem and finish repairs for the two basses - several hundred pounds each at least, I would think - or would you expect the shop's insurance to cover it?

Sporky

ICBM said:

If you were that guy, would you pay for a new neck for the Jem and finish repairs for the two basses - several hundred pounds each at least, I would think - or would you expect the shop's insurance to cover it?

Why should the shop take a hit for me being careless about an expensive guitar? If they claim on their insurance the premiums will go up and they'll still have to pay the excess - all because I didn't make sure I put a guitar back properly. 

Maybe I just have an unusual sense of personal responsibility.