Devi Ever seems to be in a bad place...

Gagaryn

digitalscream said:

Gagaryn said:

digitalscream said:

Gagaryn said:

However you seem be saying that having a personality problem, or a personality disorder, as it is usually known is not a mental disorder and is easily resolved if the individual were to pull up their socks, get on their bike and pull themselves together. This is outdated thinking. At least in the UK, and I presume equally in the US, mental health services view personality disorders as treatable conditions in similar ways to other mental health dignosis.

I didn't say "personality disorder". I said a personality problem - as in, a problematic personality. Two very different things. Or, more colloquially, an asshole. That's the conclusion I've drawn from everything I've seen of her posts and public drama.

Unless you think that everybody who's a bit of a twat actually has a mental health problem?

I know what you said. You said she has a problematic personalty that is problematic enough to casue themselves and others harm but not problematic enough to merit sympathy or help.

People who repeatedly do things that hurt both them and those around them often do have mental health problems. Sometimes diagnosed, sometimes not. Prisons are full of people who have a mental health diagnosis that didn't have a mental health diagnosis before they went in. Lots of homelss people etc. etc.

Of course it's easier to dismiss people as assholes.

Given that the vast majority of people don't suffer from mental illnesses, which do you think is more likely?

This kind of misses the point that most people don't display the kind of behaviour that is the crux of this thread.

TimmyO

There's no doubt in my mind that Devi suffers badly with mental health issues. Also, there is no doubt in my mind that the self-destructive cycle always includes a period where her life is funded by failed business offerings where a bunch of people lose their money. The tirade against the guitar community is difficult to bear given that it's the community that eventually forgives/forgets and ploughs money back into the next cycle. 

carlos

FelineGuitars said:

When I read 

Devi Ever seems to be in a bad place...

I assumed she'd simply moved to Croydon

Wait, aren't YOU in Croydon?

JezWynd

Gassage said:

However, paraphrased simply, the fact she takes it up the arse doesn’t give her the right to talk out of her arse.

and it's difficult to talk with your mouth full.

Wazmeister

Teetonetal said:

To be honest, from the moment I saw inside a Devi Ever pedal, the brand fell right off any want list and was placed firmly on avoid at all cost. All I need to know.

x 2

FelineGuitars

carlos said:

FelineGuitars said:

When I read 

Devi Ever seems to be in a bad place...

I assumed she'd simply moved to Croydon

Wait, aren't YOU in Croydon?

I'm doing my best to raise the appeal of the town ...but it's hard work

mattismetal

There are many people with mental health problems that don't troll online and engage in shady and dishonest business practices.

Having a mental illness does not make you a bad person but it doesn't stop you being one either.

gibsongretschfan

You guys do realise that everyone arguing about the merits (or not) of mental health and who is the least/most tolerable of our trans amigos is exactly the tactics this c*nt always uses to muddy the narrative of the fact they are a complete fucking crook

impmann

gibsongretschfan said:

You guys do realise that everyone arguing about the merits (or not) of mental health and who is the least/most tolerable of our trans amigos is exactly the tactics this c*nt always uses to muddy the narrative of the fact they are a complete fucking crook

Wish I could award more than one wisdom.

p90fool

Teetonetal said:

To be honest, from the moment I saw inside a Devi Ever pedal, the brand fell right off any want list and was placed firmly on avoid at all cost. 

What, you mean the Devi Ever was cosmetically perfect but kind of messed up on the inside?
 

DTSB

oh boy, happened uponTHIS thread (was an old HCFX er back in the day)

FWIW Devi was taking perorders and not shipping in 2018

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
anyway, I just thought I'd comment b/c the of the mental health issue.as kind of an absolution -- the problem is it can become kind of a circular tautology

  we can really start attributing any wrong to mental illness -- sort of abusing people is antisocial so "by definition" the  abuser was having  'sociopathic break' and we can't hold someone accountable for a disease they have

In a purely philosophical abstract, it has some validity -- but in practice it, well I think you can see the problem. Everyone is universally absolved of everything

It's something the (civil) law has to deal with in the idea of reduced capacity to contract and there are various standards for that (it can vary  by jurisdiction)

It has to ask not "is the person messed up" (we all are to some degree or another) BUT the practical "is the person too messed up to be able to enter into an agreement?"

So there is an out from contracts if they don't have the mental capacity to contract.
BUT

Now the downside people forget is - OK let's say someone is that messed up and isn't mentally suited to contract, well then they have to have some form of guardian and can't really be handling money or buy or sell stuff unsupervised or be employed or set up media accounts.
basically we are saying the person is incompetent to do those things.

The problem with the idea of being free to contract, but then being able to simply pull "but I as in a bad mental place so it doesn't count" and go back to being free to contract again and  go with "but I was in a bad place...again, so I'm not accountable"

- it invalidates the concept of accountability and completely breaks society

With Devi (now isoblmouse) it's like how a little kid is "full" when it comes to broccoli,but they are still somehow ice cream hungry

Devi 'broke' for restitution, but not broke for buying toys

soma1975

The thing about people with very serious mental health issues is that they simply cannot be expected to function logically and rationally. 

Otherwise they wouldn't have mental health issues. People being flippant about not being able to do certain mundane sounding everyday things simply don't get what it's like. 

The flipside of that is that if you cannot be expected to function logically and rationally then you probably have no place heading up a business venture where there are certain expectations and pressures are put upon you.

 

DrCornelius

I work in mental health and a client / patient / service user (whatever phrase we are supposed to use nowadays) once said to me ' just because you have a mental health issue, doesn't mean you cant also be a c___'.  Very eloquently put and although I know nothing about Devi Ever I think its important people don't get a get out of jail free card because they claim a mental illness. You can have a serious MH issue, still have capacity and still choose to act like a total prick if you so wish !

soma1975

You can also have a mental health issue and have no control, or phases of no control, and lash out at everyone that loves you and be completely incapable of holding down a regular job.

You can periods of great lucidity where all is love and happiness and you make plans for the future and periods where no matter the reality of your situation it feels like a great black hole is swallowing you up and you hate everyone and everything. 

Source: My ex-girlfriend with rapid cycling Bi-Polar disorder who was sectioned twice and was also at the time a reception level teacher. 

The whole 'you still choose not to be a prick'  thing frankly belies a lack of understanding of the breadth of mental health issues because in many cases it is absolutely incorrect.

That said, I still don't think Devi is suited to running a company. 

DrCornelius

soma1975 said:

You can also have a mental health issue and have no control, or phases of no control, and lash out at everyone that loves you and be completely incapable of holding down a regular job.

You can periods of great lucidity where all is love and happiness and you make plans for the future and periods where no matter the reality of your situation it feels like a great black hole is swallowing you up and you hate everyone and everything. 

Source: My ex-girlfriend with rapid cycling Bi-Polar disorder who was sectioned twice and was also at the time a reception level teacher. 

The whole 'you still choose not to be a prick'  thing frankly belies a lack of understanding of the breadth of mental health issues because in many cases it is absolutely incorrect.

That said, I still don't think Devi is suited to running a company. 

I totally agree , sorry I worded my response badly -

When I said 'You can have a serious MH issue, still have capacity and still choose to act like a total prick if you so wish ! ' , you can of course 

-have a serious MH issue, have capacity and choose not to be a prick

-have a serious MH issue not have capacity (temporarily or otherwise) and behave in a way that would upset as you when you had capacity again and reflected on it as you would never do/say those things if you were well.

The point I was clumsily trying to make is that even if you do have a severe and enduring MH issue it doesn't mean during moments of relative wellness and capacity you cannot choose to behave badly.

I won't finish my point with 'to say otherwise frankly belies a lack of understanding of the breadth of mental health issues because in many cases it is absolutely incorrect.' because that would be rude.

Sassafras

What was it Einstien said about insanity?
Something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.
That sums up what Devi has been doing.

AntonHunter

Sassafras said:

What was it Einstien said about insanity?
Something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.
That sums up what Devi has been doing.

And perhaps us digging this thread up again...

DrCornelius

AntonHunter said:

Sassafras said:

What was it Einstien said about insanity?
Something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.
That sums up what Devi has been doing.

And perhaps us digging this thread up again...

Yup you are right, I shouldn't have stuck my nose in  - sorry @soma1975 ;

soma1975

DrCornelius said:

soma1975 said:

You can also have a mental health issue and have no control, or phases of no control, and lash out at everyone that loves you and be completely incapable of holding down a regular job.

You can periods of great lucidity where all is love and happiness and you make plans for the future and periods where no matter the reality of your situation it feels like a great black hole is swallowing you up and you hate everyone and everything. 

Source: My ex-girlfriend with rapid cycling Bi-Polar disorder who was sectioned twice and was also at the time a reception level teacher. 

The whole 'you still choose not to be a prick'  thing frankly belies a lack of understanding of the breadth of mental health issues because in many cases it is absolutely incorrect.

That said, I still don't think Devi is suited to running a company. 

I totally agree , sorry I worded my response badly -

When I said 'You can have a serious MH issue, still have capacity and still choose to act like a total prick if you so wish ! ' , you can of course 

-have a serious MH issue, have capacity and choose not to be a prick

-have a serious MH issue not have capacity (temporarily or otherwise) and behave in a way that would upset as you when you had capacity again and reflected on it as you would never do/say those things if you were well.

The point I was clumsily trying to make is that even if you do have a severe and enduring MH issue it doesn't mean during moments of relative wellness and capacity you cannot choose to behave badly.

I won't finish my point with 'to say otherwise frankly belies a lack of understanding of the breadth of mental health issues because in many cases it is absolutely incorrect.' because that would be rude.

Cool cool. That's not how I read it originally. All good and sorry if I'm a bit touchy about this subject. It's something I was quite close to for a while. 

As an aside I had this version of the Devi Ever Soda Meiser and it was fabulous.



I think they were built by someone else though. Also built a clone of it. 

Quick demo of it from when I was teaching myself how to use a DAW many years back 

https://soundcloud.com/user-886084606/bliss

DrCornelius

Very nice !  Quite Muse-ish (in a good way) and to my ears had a hint of early STP in there too .
Glad we haven't fallen out over the MH thing, it sounds like our views aren't that far apart now we've clarified things .  I've got quite a long a complicated personal history around MH but I wont bore you with that on here. Maybe one day over a pint :-)