Anderton's Vertex video

meltedbuzzbox

StuartMac290 said:

He's lying about things in the video itself. That's not giving someone a "second" chance, that's trying to turn a blind eye to the whole shit show.

I wouldn't trust him as far as you could throw him

Dan_Halen

StuartMac290 said:

He's lying about things in the video itself. That's not giving someone a "second" chance, that's trying to turn a blind eye to the whole shit show.

It can only be ‘trying to turn a blind eye to the whole shit show’ if you’re aware of the whole shit show. You can’t assume Lee was fully aware and use that as a stick to beat him with.

I was aware of Vertex and the wah scandal but had no idea of the full extent of his bs and scams. Until this thread anyway... and I spend a fair amount of time on guitar forums/YouTube.

To assume Lee had all of this information and smiled like an idiot whilst he knew he was being fed bs after bs is ludicrous.

I’m not defending Andertons dropping a massive bollock making this video but be fair. 

darcym

shouldn't the focus be on Vertex and Mason not Andertons or Lee.

My problem is Vertex/Mason - my reasoning is that Andertons/Lee are giving him a voice to spread his lies/continue his business. 

I suspect I'm aware of %10 of the discussion DigitalScream is referencing, which is why I don't have a problem with Andertons as a business (always done fine for me) but I do have a problem with positive marketing of Vertex even for reasonable reasons, holding stock and selling it - fine, vote with your wallet and don't buy it, actively market it and allow mason a platform, sorry, can't get behind that business. 

People who got impacted by Vertex personally (I didn't as I never liked the original products so just ignored the company) will obviously feel stronger about it than someone who didn't get impacted or watch the whole drama unfold over the course of....roughly 18 months of total lies, to the point with fake lawyer letters being sent to people (some people think they are real some people think they where fake) to stop him being outed. I watched a friend buy the Vertex wah because he liked the sound on a demo (I think it was Pete Thorn) and took a leap of faith, at the time it was hard to get the UK and when the pedal turned up, really liked it so was happy (although did grumble about the price, I think he had import fees too due to no UK dealer). As it turns out he wasn't sold on the snake oil just the sound so when this all came out, he got a refund in full (eventually) and bought a BBE wah and was just as happy.

My biggest issue with this isn't the scam - that was terrible, but the man was caught out and shamed, lets move on, but it's the fact that when he's asked about this he never says "I was caught, I was a liar, I had no choice but to refund and see how I could recover" it's "I came clean, I made things right"

This is a big difference and why I can't stand companies (Reverb / Chicago music exchange - did it too) giving him a platform to say how he was a big man and came clean, and made things right, it's just not true, he was CAUGHT and FORCED to refund as his major endorser wrote a letter to the world calling him a fraud and saying he would refund out of his own pocket, coming clean would be announcing it before you're found out to the scale he was. 

If the guy was trying to actually put things right - I'd have more time for it, by telling the truth about how he was caught, rather than coming clean, and making it clear it wasn't miss-leading marketing, it was lies to peoples face and underhand threats, and if he now wasn't still doing the same game, eg: calling the Ceriatone amp he used to compare his pedal with an actual dumble, rather than a Ceriatone dumble voiced amp (which is just as good a test) or when people ask questions that are not %100 positive, or come out of genuine concern for fact based on past history, you have to answer, them, not delete the fact is you've been caught lying so people will say "is this really a new pedal" in which case the answer is either yes, or "no, it's actually based on %Y that I've modified"  rather than delete comments. Look at his facebook page, videos have no comments on, because all he gets is negative question, rather than address the first one, he deletes it so people keep asking and he ends up just removing them all.

The guys from that pedal show I have huge respect for as players, writers, and products, I really like the gigrig stuff and have been a long time user, I suspect they wouldn't be as quick to say "lets forgive and get over it" if Vertex had painted the G2 system red, put a vertex badge on it and built a business on it as his own product (maybe they would ? I find it hard to believe)

I have no problems with Andertons / Lee taking the stance they have, it's a successful business that's thriving in a tough market, you don't have that without knowing how to run a business and manage vendors, but I can't support a platform for lies.

TimmyO

Not in the same way as Mr Vertex, but there have always been shady practices in pedal land, and some of those people are totally accepted now - looking at you Wampler and Fuller 

Three-ColourSunburst

Dan_Halen said:

It can only be ‘trying to turn a blind eye to the whole shit show’ if you’re aware of the whole shit show. You can’t assume Lee was fully aware and use that as a stick to beat him with.

Point is, he most certainly must be fully aware now, and his attitude is still, "I couldn't care less because nobody died."

That he considers Mason's scams to be nothing more than (sic) 'discretions' and 'bad decisions' also speaks volumes.

StuartMac290

Dan_Halen said:

StuartMac290 said:

He's lying about things in the video itself. That's not giving someone a "second" chance, that's trying to turn a blind eye to the whole shit show.

It can only be ‘trying to turn a blind eye to the whole shit show’ if you’re aware of the whole shit show. You can’t assume Lee was fully aware and use that as a stick to beat him with.

I was aware of Vertex and the wah scandal but had no idea of the full extent of his bs and scams. Until this thread anyway... and I spend a fair amount of time on guitar forums/YouTube.

To assume Lee had all of this information and smiled like an idiot whilst he knew he was being fed bs after bs is ludicrous.

I’m not defending Andertons dropping a massive bollock making this video but be fair. 

So you think they REALLY believe that the Electrical Engineering Programme at Berkeley, University of California - one of the most revered in the world of its kind - was cancelled and discontinued whilst Mason was there?! Really?

Dan_Halen

StuartMac290 said:

Dan_Halen said:

StuartMac290 said:

He's lying about things in the video itself. That's not giving someone a "second" chance, that's trying to turn a blind eye to the whole shit show.

It can only be ‘trying to turn a blind eye to the whole shit show’ if you’re aware of the whole shit show. You can’t assume Lee was fully aware and use that as a stick to beat him with.

I was aware of Vertex and the wah scandal but had no idea of the full extent of his bs and scams. Until this thread anyway... and I spend a fair amount of time on guitar forums/YouTube.

To assume Lee had all of this information and smiled like an idiot whilst he knew he was being fed bs after bs is ludicrous.

I’m not defending Andertons dropping a massive bollock making this video but be fair. 

So you think they REALLY believe that the Electrical Engineering Programme at Berkeley, University of California - one of the most revered in the world of its kind - was cancelled and discontinued whilst Mason was there?! Really?

Do you assume everyone you talk to is lying?

StuartMac290

Of course not, but it's so obviously absolute bollocks! If someone told me they owned Guatemala and could actually fly I wouldn't believe that either.

Dan_Halen

Fair enough, I bow to your superior knowledge of the current state of electrical engineering programmes at US universities. I'm off to double check if people can actually fly and to see if I have any Guatemala in my cupboard.

Hopefully, the new Joe Bonamassa signature PRS will come out soon, be solely stocked in Andertons, demoed by Rob Chapman through a Victory amp and we can all lose our collective shit about something else.

Philtre

(deleted. never mind, wasn't funny)

Roland

Philtre said:

(deleted. never mind, wasn't funny)

I wish more people had your grasp on reality. 

Hattigol

hubobulous said:

BBBlues said:

This is where a credible thread gets turned into a laughing stock, and exactly why people like Lee ignore forums. Shame.

Which bit turned it from credible to laughable?

When was it credible??

heavyrocker

Roland said:

Philtre said:

(deleted. never mind, wasn't funny)

I wish more people had your grasp on reality. 

If you dislike moderating the forum so much, why do you do it? Same with Digi and Tony, always moaning and banging on about people “talking crap” and ‘having to deal with this shit”. Why do it then? Pass the reigns on to someone else who will do it with a bit more enthusiasm and you’ll be happier for it to boot.

joeyowen

heavyrocker said:

Roland said:

I wish more people had your grasp on reality. 

If you dislike moderating the forum so much, why do you do it? Same with Digi and Tony, always moaning and banging on about people “talking crap” and ‘having to deal with this shit”. Why do it then? Pass the reigns on to someone else who will do it with a bit more enthusiasm and you’ll be happier for it to boot.

Shut up man.  Because leaving would shaft 1000s of happy members.  

How about people on the forum stopped talking crap and causing shit.

heavyrocker

joeyowen said:

heavyrocker said:

Roland said:

I wish more people had your grasp on reality. 

If you dislike moderating the forum so much, why do you do it? Same with Digi and Tony, always moaning and banging on about people “talking crap” and ‘having to deal with this shit”. Why do it then? Pass the reigns on to someone else who will do it with a bit more enthusiasm and you’ll be happier for it to boot.

Shut up man.  Because leaving would shaft 1000s of happy members.  

How about people on the forum stopped talking crap and causing shit.

Members who would most probably just go elsewhere and form a rival forum.  The forum is made by it’s members, not by the the moderators or the owners. That’s a lesson they would be well placed to learn. If you have an open forum, with minimal admin intervention you’re going to get opinions from all sides. The problem they seem to have is that they don’t like it when people don’t agree with the or “know their place”. 

Oh, and you shut up m’aaan.

guitartango

Well @heavyrocker if you think you can do better I suggest you start your own forum , any idea how this all works or do you think you just buy a website ? Well next year 27-Jul-2019 I suggest Tony or @digitalscream let the domain name expire, then everyone will be happy.....not

 Been there myself after spending years of spending my own money on a forum that no one posted on as fucking facebook took over.

 Sorry Rant over.

prlgmnr

heavyrocker said:

The forum is made by it’s members, not by the the moderators or the owners. 

The members make up the membership of the forum, but the moderation/style of moderation is what keeps the members in this particular place and not another. 

guitartango

LOVE YOU MODS.... you do a good job

Roland

heavyrocker said:

Roland said:

Philtre said:

(deleted. never mind, wasn't funny)

I wish more people had your grasp on reality. 

If you dislike moderating the forum so much, why do you do it? Same with Digi and Tony, always moaning and banging on about people “talking crap” and ‘having to deal with this shit”. Why do it then? Pass the reigns on to someone else who will do it with a bit more enthusiasm and you’ll be happier for it to boot.

You misread me. In addition to moderating I am also a contributing member here. I liked @Philtre‘s comment.

prlgmnr said:

heavyrocker said:

The forum is made by it’s members, not by the the moderators or the owners. 

The members make up the membership of the forum, but the moderation/style of moderation is what keeps the members in this particular place and not another. 

Talking about the “shit” we have to deal with is one of the ways we explain to members what is acceptable and what is not. It also demonstrates to members who don’t like the “shit” that we are taking action on it. We know that the members who create the “shit” are a vocal minority. They just think they’re the majority because they reinforce each other’s views. The real, often silent majority just think “for fucks sakes, not that prat again” and stop reading the thread.

guitartango

Here here @Roland ;