Whiplash (the film)

JerkMoans

Superb film: watched it with my lad, who is a jazz drummer...  His own teacher is about the most chill cat imaginable, and can't bear the movie as being the very antithesis of all jazz means to him, but we enjoyed it.

earwighoney

Philly_Q said:

Great film.  I like the way it has the excitement and intensity of a thriller, without anyone getting murdered.

Along those lines, 'Jagten' aka 'The Hunt' is a superb film.

RMJ

Very hard to watch. Very hard to turn away. Brilliant film

merlin

earwighoney said:

Along those lines, 'Jagten' aka 'The Hunt' is a superb film.

Now, that's a great film! 
Scary, human, moving.... without caricature, without stereotypes, and with great narrative, dialogue and character development. 

Philly_Q

earwighoney said:

Philly_Q said:

Great film.  I like the way it has the excitement and intensity of a thriller, without anyone getting murdered.

Along those lines, 'Jagten' aka 'The Hunt' is a superb film.

Certainly is!

beed84

It's a brilliant film and superbly demonstrates dedication and the tough love a tutor will give to a student who shows great potential. The way it conveyed what it takes to be focused, hard working, undistracted, and the things one has – or is willing – to give up to be great was really admirable. The film made me think about my own musical ventures and has inspired me to be more fixed on what it is I want.

stickyfiddle

beed84 said:

It's a brilliant film and superbly demonstrates dedication and the tough love a tutor will give to a student who shows great potential. The way it conveyed what it takes to be focused, hard working, undistracted, and the things one has – or is willing – to give up to be great was really admirable. The film made me think about my own musical ventures and has inspired me to be more fixed on what it is I want.

It’s intereesting, because I saw 2 crazy people giving each other hell for 90 minutes. I definitely didn’t see it as an endorsement of that sort of psychotic dedication...

Kebabkid

Probably not to this extent but my wife is a music teacher and she's experienced and seen ritual humiliation, mental torture whilst both studying and observing other colleagues. Some of them shouldn't be in that profession, let alone be working with children.

I've always hated the phrase 'Those that can, Do, those that can't, Teach' and don't really believe that but the few I've seen or heard about who just want to clip student's wings, destroy their confidence etc have not been great players or are just frustrated/failed musicians. Wasn't this the case with the teacher in the film and his own, anodine music?

It doesn't stop there as you should see how some musicians treat each other at uni auditions or music competitions

Great film but uncomfortable to watch

beed84

stickyfiddle said:

beed84 said:

It's a brilliant film and superbly demonstrates dedication and the tough love a tutor will give to a student who shows great potential. The way it conveyed what it takes to be focused, hard working, undistracted, and the things one has – or is willing – to give up to be great was really admirable. The film made me think about my own musical ventures and has inspired me to be more fixed on what it is I want.

It’s intereesting, because I saw 2 crazy people giving each other hell for 90 minutes. I definitely didn’t see it as an endorsement of that sort of psychotic dedication...

Then maybe you've missed the point. The film wasn't real, and I'm not suggesting that's how it should be in tutor-student relationship; but it was an extreme version of how a tutor will push a student who shows promise, and how said student has to be dedicated in their studies to be great in what they want to achieve. There are no short cuts and you can't be half-arsed.

stickyfiddle

beed84 said:

stickyfiddle said:

beed84 said:

It's a brilliant film and superbly demonstrates dedication and the tough love a tutor will give to a student who shows great potential. The way it conveyed what it takes to be focused, hard working, undistracted, and the things one has – or is willing – to give up to be great was really admirable. The film made me think about my own musical ventures and has inspired me to be more fixed on what it is I want.

It’s intereesting, because I saw 2 crazy people giving each other hell for 90 minutes. I definitely didn’t see it as an endorsement of that sort of psychotic dedication...

Then maybe you've missed the point. The film wasn't real, and I'm not suggesting that's how it should be in tutor-student relationship; but it was an extreme version of how a tutor will push a student who shows promise, and how said student has to be dedicated in their studies to be great in what they want to achieve. There are no short cuts and you can't be half-arsed.

I get all that, but it also shows the level of psychopathy required on both sides, and suggests quite strongly that it's not healthy.

dtr

I thought it was weird.  There was definitely a fetishization of lonely woodshedding, with music reduced to a sterile display of technique.  I didn't get any sense of music as a shared and collaborative joy from it, which is what my favourite music films all inspire.  Its the film equivalent of the music you watch in YouTube brag videos, which does partner unsurprisingly well with psychological abuse and relentless suffering.

Sporky

Can we please stop using the word "music" in association with jazz drumming?

It's like using "baking" to describe Olympic ski-jumping.

EricTheWeary

dtr said:

I thought it was weird.  There was definitely a fetishization of lonely woodshedding, with music reduced to a sterile display of technique.  I didn't get any sense of music as a shared and collaborative joy from it, which is what my favourite music films all inspire.  Its the film equivalent of the music you watch in YouTube brag videos, which does partner unsurprisingly well with psychological abuse and relentless suffering.

It's been a while since I watched it but it seemed to be about jazz as a form of extreme sport. Many films about music/ musicians seem to have very little featured music in them, that we are expected to do our own home work perhaps. 
I guess the film has an intensity and focuses on an unusual subject so there are things to admire about it. It stands out and that's hard to do. Doesn't mean I particularly loved it. 

stickyfiddle

dtr said:

I thought it was weird.  There was definitely a fetishization of lonely woodshedding, with music reduced to a sterile display of technique.  I didn't get any sense of music as a shared and collaborative joy from it, which is what my favourite music films all inspire.  Its the film equivalent of the music you watch in YouTube brag videos, which does partner unsurprisingly well with psychological abuse and relentless suffering.

I think that sounds about right. To me the movie was about dangerous obsession (on both sides) far more than it was about music, despite all the music in it (obviously)

ewal

I thought it was truly awful completely lacking in any credibility. Like a brat pack movie from the 80s. Against all odds Ben still managed to pull off his 10 minute long drum solo. The crowd went wild!! Dick Dastard the nasty instructor slouched off to lick his wounds. Over dramatic laughable tripe.

Winny_Pooh

ewal said:

I thought it was truly awful completely lacking in any credibility. Like a brat pack movie from the 80s. Against all odds Ben still managed to pull off his 10 minute long drum solo. The crowd went wild!! Dick Dastard the nasty instructor slouched off to lick his wounds. Over dramatic laughable tripe.

Arguably he had the ability to pull it off earlier but the problematic mentor relationship (while encouraging excellence too) was a psychological hindrance. 'Tripe' is a strong word. Post some of your recommended movies then. 

vasselmeyer

ewal said:

I thought it was truly awful completely lacking in any credibility. Like a brat pack movie from the 80s. Against all odds Ben still managed to pull off his 10 minute long drum solo. The crowd went wild!! Dick Dastard the nasty instructor slouched off to lick his wounds. Over dramatic laughable tripe.

SPOILER ALERT!

Philly_Q

Well who'd have thought this would turn into a heated debate.

stratman3142

Great film.

bloodandtears

ewal said:

I thought it was truly awful completely lacking in any credibility. Like a brat pack movie from the 80s. Against all odds Ben still managed to pull off his 10 minute long drum solo. The crowd went wild!! Dick Dastard the nasty instructor slouched off to lick his wounds. Over dramatic laughable tripe.

Especially the scene where the Aliens arrived to harvest paradiddles