...but baby it's cold outside !

Emp_Fab

ICBM said:

Emp_Fab said:

Here we go again...  the hostility because I’m expressing an opinion that doesn’t fit everyone else’s.  Can’t we have a discussion about anything remotely controversial or topical without everyone (well, a majority anyway) running for their bloody pitchforks ?

It's not because your opinion doesn't fit everyone else's, it's that your opinion here is either seriously uninformed or just plain wrong, depending on whether you read anything about the original context of the song beforehand.

An opinion cannot be "wrong" - you can't just pigeonhole people into 'correct' and 'incorrect' !!  I

digitalscream said:
I think you need to learn to distinguish between personal hostility (of which there has been none in this thread, as far as I can tell) and hostility towards your opinion (which there's plenty of, because many - including myself - see it as representative of the root cause of much that's wrong with the world). It's perfectly possible to hold the latter without the former (which you yourself have done many, many times on here).

Don't play the victim just because you've discovered your opinion to be unpopular, dude

I disagree.  Tell me these posts are completely playing the argument and not the man....

>I'm starting to think you've never flirted with a woman before 

>the fact you take that line to suggest he's going to get her legless and rape her says more about you

>you need to get out a lot more and stop being so damn petty-minded.

>get a life

...and I'm not playing the victim at all - I'm just frustrated that, for some, it seems very difficult to separate the argument from the arguer.  I suppose that's my failing really - expecting everyone to be as dispassionately analytical of the issue as I am.  I wonder if I'm on the spectrum a bit ?

west

‘Baby, It’s Cold Outside’: The real story of the song

The Palm Beach Post in Florida ran a great piece on the origin of the seasonal classic, and an interview with John Loesser.

From the article by Scott Eyman:  As headline writers around the country compete to come up with variations on Baby, It’s Cold Outside, the crusading journalists at the Palm Beach Post want you to know the truth about the song, not to mention the phrase.

Like everything else in the world, it’s got a tangential South Florida connection. But it has little to do with this week’s blast of arctic air, or even the holiday season.

John Loesser as a boy with his Hollywood father, Frank Loesser.

“My father wrote that song as a piece of special material for he and my mother to do at parties,” says John Loesser, who runs the Lyric Theatre in Stuart, and is the son of legendary composer Frank Loesser (Guys and Dolls, How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying.)

Frank Loesser’s wife, Lynn, was a nightclub singer who had moved from Terre Haute, Ind. to New York in search of a career. She was singing in a nightclub when she met Frank Loesser around 1930.

The song itself was written in 1944, when Loesser and his wife had just moved into the Hotel Navarro in New York. They gave a housewarming party for themselves and when they did the number, everybody went crazy.

“We had to do it over and over again,” Lynn Loesser told her kids, “and we became instant parlor room stars.”

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

ICBM said:

Emp_Fab said:

Here we go again...  the hostility because I’m expressing an opinion that doesn’t fit everyone else’s.  Can’t we have a discussion about anything remotely controversial or topical without everyone (well, a majority anyway) running for their bloody pitchforks ?

It's not because your opinion doesn't fit everyone else's, it's that your opinion here is either seriously uninformed or just plain wrong, depending on whether you read anything about the original context of the song beforehand.

An opinion cannot be "wrong" - you can't just pigeonhole people into 'correct' and 'incorrect' !!  I

Funny, that - you've argued exactly the opposite in many threads. Flat earth, anyone?

Emp_Fab said:

digitalscream said:
I think you need to learn to distinguish between personal hostility (of which there has been none in this thread, as far as I can tell) and hostility towards your opinion (which there's plenty of, because many - including myself - see it as representative of the root cause of much that's wrong with the world). It's perfectly possible to hold the latter without the former (which you yourself have done many, many times on here).

Don't play the victim just because you've discovered your opinion to be unpopular, dude

I disagree.  Tell me these posts are completely playing the argument and not the man....

>I'm starting to think you've never flirted with a woman before 

>the fact you take that line to suggest he's going to get her legless and rape her says more about you

>you need to get out a lot more and stop being so damn petty-minded.

>get a life

...and I'm not playing the victim at all - I'm just frustrated that, for some, it seems very difficult to separate the argument from the arguer.  I suppose that's my failing really - expecting everyone to be as dispassionately analytical of the issue as I am.  I wonder if I'm on the spectrum a bit ?

They don't seem like hostility (at least not in the context of a forum). Seem to be more along the lines of the difference between "You're being idiotic" and "You're an idiot".

The thing is, you're arguing from two incompatible standpoints here. First off you say that opinions (specifically yours) can't be wrong, and then you say that this should be dispassionately analytical. The latter requires facts, whereas the former requires just saying stuff repeatedly in the face of facts.

Emp_Fab

>Funny, that - you've argued exactly the opposite in many threads. Flat earth, anyone?

Oh come on...  he was trolling.  Nobody seriously thought he really believed that did they ?!!

>Seem to be more along the lines of the difference between "You're being idiotic" and "You're an idiot".
I don't see any difference.  In order to be idiotic, you need to be an idiot.  It's the presence or absence of the pronoun you that makes a difference.

>The thing is, you're arguing from two incompatible standpoints here. First off you say that opinions (specifically yours) can't be wrong, and then you say that this should be dispassionately analytical. The latter requires facts, whereas the former requires just saying stuff repeatedly in the face of facts.
Now steady on..... I'm still hungover.  I'll need more coffee before I can wrap my brain around that !  However, my initial reaction to that is - you're taking that out of context and then committing a logical fallacy with it.  Opinions can be wrong in the context where the opinion is a (dis)provable statement - e.g. "The world is flat".  Opinions on the interpretation of something cannot be wrong.  In this specific example, my opinion is that the lyrics do sound rapey.  ICBM argued that my opinion was wrong.  Who can say which opinion is right and which is wrong ?

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

>Funny, that - you've argued exactly the opposite in many threads. Flat earth, anyone?

Oh come on...  he was trolling.  Nobody seriously thought he really believed that did they ?!!

Actually, he did. However, just hypothetically shift your perspective to consider the fact that your posts may appear to others to be trolling in a similar (although slightly less whackadoodle) manner...

Emp_Fab said:

>Seem to be more along the lines of the difference between "You're being idiotic" and "You're an idiot".
I don't see any difference.  In order to be idiotic, you need to be an idiot.  It's the presence or absence of the pronoun you that makes a difference.

Not at all. Smart people can say and do stupid things - doesn't make them stupid, just makes them astonishingly wrong in that instance.

Emp_Fab said:

>The thing is, you're arguing from two incompatible standpoints here. First off you say that opinions (specifically yours) can't be wrong, and then you say that this should be dispassionately analytical. The latter requires facts, whereas the former requires just saying stuff repeatedly in the face of facts.
Now steady on..... I'm still hungover.  I'll need more coffee before I can wrap my brain around that !  However, my initial reaction to that is - you're taking that out of context and then committing a logical fallacy with it.  Opinions can be wrong in the context where the opinion is a (dis)provable statement - e.g. "The world is flat".  Opinions on the interpretation of something cannot be wrong.  In this specific example, my opinion is that the lyrics do sound rapey.  ICBM argued that my opinion was wrong.  Who can say which opinion is right and which is wrong ?

Taking something out of context is exactly what you're doing with this entire thread! You're taking a song, removing the societal context from it, then deliberately (and knowingly) removing the original intent of the writer and substituting your own. What could that be construed as other than (at a minimum) "taking that out of context"?

octatonic

digitalscream said:

Emp_Fab said:

>Seem to be more along the lines of the difference between "You're being idiotic" and "You're an idiot".
I don't see any difference.  In order to be idiotic, you need to be an idiot.  It's the presence or absence of the pronoun you that makes a difference.

Not at all. Smart people can say and do stupid things - doesn't make them stupid, just makes them astonishingly wrong in that instance.

Exactly.

@Emp_Fab - I suggest you read this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_People_Believe_Weird_Things

MrBump

@Snags - top work for getting the word "coquettish" into modern parlance!  

Snags

@MrBump I remain, as always, on the cutting edge of linguistic development

Dominic

Linguistic Development .......retro renaissance linguistic development in a rather charming and quaint way....I applaud it.

Cols

Man, @Emp_Fab would have a field day with Otis Redding.

'm gonna wait 'till the midnight hour
That's when my love come tumbling down
I'm gonna wait 'till the midnight hour
When there' no one else around
I'm gonna take you, girl, and hold you
And do all things I told you, in the midnight hour

Run, lady!  Run and don’t look back!

MrBump

Parental abuse?

Tie your mother down
Tie your mother down
Lock your daddy out of doors
I don't need him nosin' around
Tie your mother down
Tie your mother down
Give me all your love tonight

MrBump

... or some Yardbirds..?

Good morning, little schoolgirl.
Good morning, little schoolgirl.
Can I go home with you?
Won't you let me go home with you,
So I can hug, hug, squeeze, squeeze?
If you let me I can tease you baby.
Hey, hey hey hey. Hey hey hey hey. Hey, yeah.

MrBump

... perhaps it's not best to gaze on the past through the lens of today?

Kalimna

On the subject of potentialy awkward lyrics, may I remind you of GnR's masterpiece that is 'Used to love her'.........

munckee

The blues song covered by Eric Clapton:

"Good morning, little schoolgirl.
Good morning, little schoolgirl.
Can I go home with you?
Won't you let me go home with you,
So I can hug, hug, squeeze, squeeze?
If you let me I can tease you baby.
Hey, hey hey hey. Hey hey hey hey. Hey, yeah.

Let's dance, little schoolgirl.
Let's dance, little schoolgirl.

Won't you let me take you to the hop, hop,
Have a party at the soda shop
So we can do the twist, do the stroll
To the music of the rock 'n' roll.
Hey, hey hey hey. Hey hey hey hey. Hey, yeah.

Good morning, little schoolgirl.
Good morning, little schoolgirl.

Can I go home with you?
Won't you let me go home with you,
So I can hug, hug, squeeze, squeeze?
If you let me I can tease you baby.
Hey, hey hey hey. Hey hey hey hey. Hey, yeah.

Good morning, little schoolgirl.
Good morning, little schoolgirl.

Can I go home with you?
Won't you let me go home with you?
Tell your mama and your papa that I love you.
Tell your sisters and your brother that I love you.
Hey, hey hey hey. Hey, hey hey hey.
Hey, hey hey hey. Hey, hey hey hey."

Snags

Everything Zodiac Mindwarp wrote, ever?

PC_Dave

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46425160

digitalscream

PC_Dave said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-46425160

FFS. My take-away from that was the last bit - that somebody actually got paid, as part of their tenure as a professor, to write a paper on the racism of Jingle Bells.

Shrews

The much loved Maggie May could be in trouble, seducing young boys and all that,

Wake up Maggie I think I got something to say to you
It's late September and I really should be back at school
I know I keep you amused but I feel I'm being used
Oh Maggie I couldn't have tried any more
You lured me away from home just to save you from being alone
You stole my heart and that's what really hurt

The morning sun when it's in your face really shows your age..........

And there might be a knock on Sting's door too

Young teacher, the subject
Of schoolgirl fantasy

Temptation, frustration,
So bad it makes him cry

Erm....

Fretwired

Ban music and burn guitars .. that's where we're headed. Well done @Emp_Fab

I've just sent the synopsis for a new Doctor Who story called the 'Day the music died' in which the Doctor wipes people's memory of offensive tunes so the planet can live happily ever after. Mr Chibnut loves it ...

:-) :-) ;-)