The forum, its present and its future

digitalscream

thumpingrug said:

Hi @digitalscream,   just wondered if we could have an update.  Recognise that you have your hands full but a progress update would be appreciate.

Yep - there's been less progress than expected, because I had two windows for development - first was a week off, during which my mother-in-law was seriously ill and I had to do a lot of ferrying around, and second was Christmas when my entire family (myself included) was ill.

So...thank you, universe. That was marvellous.

In any case, I've built the data model for it, refined the migration process, and I'm about half-way through building a new layout that'll work across all platforms. I expect that to be done within the next three weekends.

After that, it's sign-up. I suspect I'll forego the whole "sign up with Google/Facebook/whatever" thing, because it's more or less pointless and only saves you typing in a couple of fields.

thumpingrug

digitalscream said:

thumpingrug said:

Hi @digitalscream,   just wondered if we could have an update.  Recognise that you have your hands full but a progress update would be appreciate.

Yep - there's been less progress than expected, because I had two windows for development - first was a week off, during which my mother-in-law was seriously ill and I had to do a lot of ferrying around, and second was Christmas when my entire family (myself included) was ill.

So...thank you, universe. That was marvellous.

In any case, I've built the data model for it, refined the migration process, and I'm about half-way through building a new layout that'll work across all platforms. I expect that to be done within the next three weekends.

After that, it's sign-up. I suspect I'll forego the whole "sign up with Google/Facebook/whatever" thing, because it's more or less pointless and only saves you typing in a couple of fields.

Thanks man, appreciate you taking the time for the update. I recall seeing that your MIL had been ill but missed anything about you and everyone else also being unwell at Christmas.  This may have coincided with a few days I was laid up with an infection.  If it wasn't for the significant time away from work that Christmas and New year brings I might seriously consider banning it.  Anyhow,  sounds like you have been playing catch up and that is also very much appreciated.  Looking forward to seeing the fruits of your endeavours.

Foster

Emp_Fab said:

digitalscream said:

Emp_Fab said:

I don't agree with the perma-ban policy and the conveniently-selected rules that block Lixarto from returning but let Drew back in.  If you're going to give people a second shot and an opportunity to demonstrate they have changed, then I see no sensible reason why Lixarto should be denied this.  We all fuck up, we all go through shit times where we act like dicks.  If you're granting clemency, grant it fairly.

They're not "conveniently-selected" - the rule under which Lixarto was perma-banned has been there right from the beginning; in fact, it's the only one for which a perma-ban is specified (ie creating a new account to get around the imposition of a spell in the cooler). He knew that when he did it, because he had a hand in creating that very rule. That said, with everything else he did (and the way he reacted when I asked him to stop), he was pretty lucky to get away with just a week in the cooler up to that point.

OK - fair point. You are correct. I do feel, however, that Drew was extended far more opportunities - third, fourth, fifth chances ad nauseum, than would have been extended to others. All I'm saying is that I'm not the only one who feels he received favourable treatment and that you will foment conflict should anything happen that reaffirms that suspicion.

Having seen the attitude towards lixarto in the recent "poeple wot play like shite"* thread. I can't help but bring this up again.

Exactly why are banned people A allowed back in freely whilst banned people B allowed to still have their name blackened without any intervention by the moderation team? 


I cannot see this as anything other than "well I like person A and it doesn't matter what they did as Tony has buggered off and i'm now in charge"


Ban me for my opinion if you want (or claim it was under rule 46, paragraph 7 labeled "don't be a dick" which is so vague as to mean "I'll decide on a complete whim as if I like you enough to ban you or not"). Hypocrisy has to be called out.



*whatever it was called

digitalscream

Foster said:

Exactly why are banned people A allowed back in freely whilst banned people B allowed to still have their name blackened without any intervention by the moderation team? 

Do I really have to explain the difference between "perma-ban" and "ban"?

The difference in wording has been there right from the beginning of the forum. Lixarto deliberately carried out all of his actions in the full knowledge that he was breaking the rules for normal members. What he was doing endangered everything that we were trying to build - bear in mind that he did all of this within the first six months of the forum's existence. Everything he did was fuelled by his vendetta against Drew. That's not to mention that moderators and admins on here are held to a much higher standard of behaviour than anybody else, for reasons that I should think are quite obvious.

He himself admitted that he was working to destroy Drew's reputation online and goad him into doing something that would get him banned, and he didn't care how much he trashed the forum in the process (eg editing people's threads and responses to make them agree with his position and start arguments). That alone should've been a permanent ban, but all we did was remove his moderator privileges and put him in the cooler for a week. He then immediately created the second user ID in order to skirt the ban and continue his vendetta.

Even ignoring the perma-ban rule, the 12-month parole option is there to account for the fact that people have a rough spot in their lives, and that they can grow a bit. Lixarto's attacks on Drew had already been going for years before this forum came into existence, and it continued here; then, in the time since then, he's made it clear to other people that it still hasn't changed.

Which is why it's permanent (essentially, it's the same logic behind the fact that Collingridge won't ever be shown leniency, either).

Foster said:

I cannot see this as anything other than "well I like person A and it doesn't matter what they did as Tony has buggered off and i'm now in charge"

Ban me for my opinion if you want (or claim it was under rule 46, paragraph 7 labeled "don't be a dick" which is so vague as to mean "I'll decide on a complete whim as if I like you enough to ban you or not"). Hypocrisy has to be called out.

No matter who we've had in the modmin team, Lixarto's permanent ban has always been unanimously agreed upon. Similarly for anybody returning - and, even though you're enjoying framing this as my personal desire to put my mates in here, to my recollection we've had four people return after bans (two of them before making the "12 month" thing official policy), and only one of them has been a friend of mine. Oh, and Drew's return was also put to a vote and unanimously agreed upon - before Tony left.

Put simply, the facts (which have been explained time and time again in this very thread) don't remotely support your position.

There is almost nothing on here that I'll take unilateral action on - in fact, the only time that happens without discussion and agreement in the modmin area is when something clearly has negative legal implications for the forum. That's the way it's always been (given the fact that I'm the one in the firing line, since I host the forum), and nothing's changed from that perspective since Tony's departure.

However, with all that said...feel free to vote with your feet if you really feel that strongly about how terribly this place is run. It's not like the Internet's short of guitar forums, so I'm sure you'll be able to find one that's more to your liking pretty quickly.

TheBigDipper

I like this place. I enjoy spending time here and appreciate the efforts of those who run it - without making me pay unless I want to donate something. 

My view on free-to-me services is simple. I don't help run it, so I believe that those who do should be given the freedom to do it as best they can in the manner they see fit.

Handsome_Chris

@Foster , whilst I agree that it's a bit a bad show to round up on ex-members who can not defend themselves on this forum, I believe that Lixarto was coolered and then tried to circumvent that by starting up a second/sock-puppet account.  I believe that is currently the only offence for which there is permanent banishment.

TL:DR - Lix tucked himself up.

Bridgehouse

Foster said:

Exactly why are banned people A allowed back in freely whilst banned people B allowed to still have their name blackened without any intervention by the moderation team?

Two points on this:

- We are volunteers and can’t read everything in the same time as everyone else collectively. We respond by posts being flagged. The flagging system is there to highlight content we should review. The thread has now been flagged, we have started to look at it and I’ve commented on the thread in question,

- Banned members are often commented on. Drew received an awful lot of negative comments on here whilst he was banned and couldn’t defend himself. The mods didn’t intervene then either - mainly because the posts weren’t flagged. When they were, action if necessary was taken. 

Foster

digitalscream said:

However, with all that said...feel free to vote with your feet if you really feel that strongly about how terribly this place is run. It's not like the Internet's short of guitar forums, so I'm sure you'll be able to find one that's more to your liking pretty quickly.

Ok then, please delete my account.

Roland

@Foster ;.  We don’t delete accounts. The most we will do is stop an account being used. Unlike the Hotel California you can leave at any time. Just walk away from the keyboard.

Handsome_Chris

This shit again!  Why can't anyone just go with a bit of quiet dignity, like Frankus and Holnrew did?

Teetonetal

Roland said:

@Foster ;.  We don’t delete accounts. The most we will do is stop an account being used. Unlike the Hotel California you can leave at any time. Just walk away from the keyboard.

Does GDPR not apply to forums?

digitalscream

Teetonetal said:

Roland said:

@Foster ;.  We don’t delete accounts. The most we will do is stop an account being used. Unlike the Hotel California you can leave at any time. Just walk away from the keyboard.

Does GDPR not apply to forums?

Yes, but only for identifiable data (ie that by which somebody can be precisely identified in the real world). Right To Erasure requests don't mean that the account has to be deleted; anonymising it is sufficient, especially when the non-personal data associated with the account is required for maintaining the integrity of the dataset as a whole (which it is - if we deleted the account, all of the posts would be deleted and that would ruin every thread the account has ever been involved with).

Ergo...change the username, remove the email address...no personally-identifiable data remains.

Bridgehouse

digitalscream said:

Teetonetal said:

Roland said:

@Foster ;.  We don’t delete accounts. The most we will do is stop an account being used. Unlike the Hotel California you can leave at any time. Just walk away from the keyboard.

Does GDPR not apply to forums?

Yes, but only for identifiable data (ie that by which somebody can be precisely identified in the real world). Right To Erasure requests don't mean that the account has to be deleted; anonymising it is sufficient, especially when the non-personal data associated with the account is required for maintaining the integrity of the dataset as a whole (which it is - if we deleted the account, all of the posts would be deleted and that would ruin every thread the account has ever been involved with).

Ergo...change the username, remove the email address...no personally-identifiable data remains.

And, the DPA/GDPR regulations depend on business size. For organisations that do not make money or are not identifiable businesses then the rules are very different. 

Roland

GDPR refers to personal information. We only hold the personal information which is required to manage the forum. It is held securely, and is not visible to the public. Many people say they intend to leave, and then come back once they’ve cooled off. Some people who have been banned attempt to rejoin by creating a second username. To deal with situations like these we have to retain certain details about an account. This is allowable under GDPR.

Handsome_Chris

Handsome_Chris said:

This shit again!  Why can't anyone just go with a bit of quiet dignity, like Frankus and Holnrew did?

A "wow" for this?!  They're not dead: they just stopped using tFB because it wasn't for them.

octatonic

TimmyO

Honestly/innocently intended question (I've not read the whole 11 pages) - why not use Discourse or similar? 

monquixote

TimmyO said:

Honestly/innocently intended question (I've not read the whole 11 pages) - why not use Discourse or similar? 

It's discussed in an earlier post so you will need to read the thread for your answer.

TimmyO

monquixote said:

TimmyO said:

Honestly/innocently intended question (I've not read the whole 11 pages) - why not use Discourse or similar? 

It's discussed in an earlier post so you will need to read the thread for your answer.

12 pages - I was interested, but not that interested :-) 

m_c

digitalscream said:

Discourse (written in Rails and Angular, I think) was an option, but it's so prescriptive in terms of the architecture that it wouldn't leave us too many options for hosting...and all of them relatively expensive.

By comparison, I can write something that's exactly what we need without too much trouble (forums aren't actually as complicated as people seem to believe). I'm in no absolute rush to get it done, and I'm not setting any arbitrary deadlines.

@TimmyO ;