Barefaced AVD guitar cabs - not open backed, not closed back, not even ported; but something new!

BarefacedAudio

digitalscream said:

Yeah, so...that proves that these things are for real

I'm interested to get my hands on one, because I'd like to see how it fares in my usual use case - it's used for on-stage sound (which is obviously going to be dispersed much more widely), but there's a mic in front going to the FoH desk. Will the close-mic sound markedly different to a normal cab? Hmmm....

Close-mic sounds very similar, just less boxiness.

ThorpyFX said:

@BarefacedAudio that was a  great video!!! cabs look fantastic.

Thanks!

digitalscream said:

The only small issue - which isn't an issue for me, but might be for some - is that because the cabs are louder for the same input signal, they're actually less appropriate for home use (given that lots of valve amps have hair triggers at the lower end of the scale).

If you're sitting close to your cab at home, in the optimum listening position, the loudness should barely be different - but they will be louder out in the room.

simonk said:

lukedlb said:

Forgive me but I couldn’t find any technical info with photos that demonstrate the construction difference. Can the cab be ordered without a cone?

There are pictures of the construction on their website and an exploded animation in that video.
I doubt they’ll offer a bare cab as there’s a HPF tuned to the particular driver fitted.

There are a few issues for us with selling unloaded cabs:

1. We'd have to build the cab fully with speakers and grill to be able to test it - then remove the grill and speakers and then refit the grill. So the labour costs are higher without speakers than with.

2. We front-mount the speakers with t-nuts and bolts, not wood screws - so any alternate driver needs to have near identical bolt circle diameter and baffle hole dimensions.

3. The AVD assembly limits rearward space - so deep Alnico magnets don't fit without a specially made AVD (and you can't just cut away some plywood and hope it still works right!)

4. Extremely heavy drivers (like EVM 12L) present too high a cantilever load on the baffle for reliability when gigging.

5. The low cut filter requires a certain driver impedance (actual impedance, not nominal impedance) to work as designed.

6. The high pass filter requires a certain driver impedance (actual impedance, not nominal impedance) to work as designed.

7. From a financial standpoint, we pay less for the drivers than retail customers would, so deleting the drivers wouldn't reduce the price by as much as some may think (assuming points 1-6 didn't affect things at all).

8. From a shipping standpoint, the cabs are so light that we're charged based on size (volumetric weight) rather than actual weight, so leaving out speakers doesn't reduce shipping costs.

9. I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that on average those people installing their own drivers are going to require more customer service time from us than those who buy the cab as is.

fretmeister said:

@BarefacedAudio ;

Question about the 2x12 - does the defraction wotsit work properly if the cab has to be used on it's end, if there is a small stage / limited space?

It works best with the AVD slot kept vertical for maximum horizontal dispersion - we're designing a vertical 212 too!

JCA2550 said:

Alex, if and when you bring out a 2x10 GX cab I'll be at the front of the queue

We weren't planning to do a 210 but there's nothing stopping us if there's enough interest!

fretmeister

Mmmmm a vertical 2x12!

Mmmmm indeed!

digitalscream

@BarefacedAudio - Given that these cabs have much better dispersion than standard cabs, surely a vertical 2x12" is a redundant concept here?

Or is the issue that moving from one speaker to two actually increases the directionality by a bit along one axis?

Not being critical, I'm just curious as to how the mechanics of doubling the speakers works with regard to the AVD slot.

riffpowers

@BarefacedAudio I think I'll wait for the vertical 2x12,

Modulus_Amps

digitalscream said:

@BarefacedAudio - Given that these cabs have much better dispersion than standard cabs, surely a vertical 2x12" is a redundant concept here?

Or is the issue that moving from one speaker to two actually increases the directionality by a bit along one axis?

Not being critical, I'm just curious as to how the mechanics of doubling the speakers works with regard to the AVD slot.

If you want to run 2 x greenbacks with your 50w amp then you need a 2 x 12

@BarefacedAudio -  Interesting product, good luck with it, would love to see the patent application to see what you have declared novel, and if it is novel, if you intend to license out the design rights.

Trude

I’d love to hear how the 10” and 12” versions compare

JCA2550

The only slight reservation I have with these, and most single speaker cabs is aesthetic, that they are narrower than most of the standard sized heads that sit on top of them

ICBM

JCA2550 said:

The only slight reservation I have with these, and most single speaker cabs is aesthetic, that they are narrower than most of the standard sized heads that sit on top of them

That's because most guitar amps are far too big. Ridiculously huge, in fact.

There is just no need for it - the large size is a generally 1970s/80s trend to make them visually impressive. Look at an original 1960s Vox AC100... only 19" wide, and even at that they could have made it slightly smaller. And then compare it to a 1970s Marshall 'large box' 50W head - which is about half totally wasted space.

digitalscream

ICBM said:

JCA2550 said:

The only slight reservation I have with these, and most single speaker cabs is aesthetic, that they are narrower than most of the standard sized heads that sit on top of them

That's because most guitar amps are far too big. Ridiculously huge, in fact.

There is just no need for it - the large size is a generally 1970s/80s trend to make them visually impressive. Look at an original 1960s Vox AC100... only 19" wide, and even at that they could have made it slightly smaller. And then compare it to a 1970s Marshall 'large box' 50W head - which is about half totally wasted space.

On the other hand, they're perfect for me because my amp is about 5" square

BarefacedAudio

JCA2550 said:

The only slight reservation I have with these, and most single speaker cabs is aesthetic, that they are narrower than most of the standard sized heads that sit on top of them

That's why we're making this too: https://barefacedaudio.com/products/radical-212h


36lbs or 16kg if you prefer the metric system. Full Marshall head width!

Rear view for total WTF is going on there?!!!

digitalscream

BarefacedAudio said:

Rear view for total WTF is going on there?!!!

Right, then.

The physics of that just made my head explode. I'm not even going to ask

riffpowers

@BarefacedAudio are the speakon only or are there normal speaker jacks too?
Us guitar players dont; use speakon stuff.!

fretmeister

riffpowers said:

@BarefacedAudio are the speakon only or are there normal speaker jacks too?
Us guitar players dont; use speakon stuff.!

Those are combi - does both.

Jack goes in the middle of the speakon.

simonk

riffpowers said:

@BarefacedAudio are the speakon only or are there normal speaker jacks too?
Us guitar players dont; use speakon stuff.!

They’re combo sockets: speakon and 1/4”

digitalscream

fretmeister said:

riffpowers said:

@BarefacedAudio are the speakon only or are there normal speaker jacks too?
Us guitar players dont; use speakon stuff.!

Those are combi - does both.

Jack goes in the middle of the speakon.

This - if they're the same as on my Matrix cab, they're actually better for jacks than normal jack sockets because they have more grip!

Moe_Zambeek

Dang, prices gone back up :-/

BarefacedAudio

FYI @digitalscream has a Reformer 112 he's testing. And we've just launched a vertical 212:



(That's the back - the front looks much more normal!)

https://barefacedaudio.com/products/uprising-212v

JamesSGBrown

Band I'm in (God Damn) borrowed a cab from yourselves for a tour back in '17 and it was almost comically easy to move about. Can say hand-on-heart that these are excellent products!

digitalscream

OK, before we start with my review...I'm comparing it to my Matrix NL212. Yes, I'm all about the lightweight gear. The NL212 is a front-ported 2x12" cab with (from what I understand) custom Neo drivers, voiced to sound V30-ish. I personally don't feel like they do sound V30-ish at all - more definition and more low-end, much more of a modern sound, but that could be the cab's influence. What I do know is that it's loud enough with a Powerstage 170 into 8 ohms (so ~90W solid state) to drown out a loud drummer before I chickened out with the volume knob.

An important disclaimer: I'm not here to shill for Barefaced! Aside from genuine appreciation at the gesture Alex made, I don't have any incentive to sell you guys on these cabs. Accordingly, I hope you'll take those conclusions at face value (but...obviously, if you don't...that's cool too).

Finally, for context, I've played exclusively heavy rock through it. I'm pretty much a one-trick-pony when it comes to playing guitar.

Anyway, on to the cab.

Let's get the volume issue out of the way first. Now, the V30s in the Victory cab Rob used in his demo are among the most efficient speakers available, and he said the Reformer 112 was loads louder in that room. I've compared them in two rooms - one small sorta-treated room just big enough to get a 4-piece band in and one open hall with a 5-piece (two guitars), and no...it's not louder than the NL212 from the front in either case. In fact, I had to drive the amp a bit further than I would've done to get enough volume to be heard over the drummer and the rest of the band. From the back, however, it's much louder (and having used open-backed cabs before, it felt much louder than those too).

However, it's vastly louder than any 1x12" I've ever used, whether open, closed or ported. I've tried a couple of single-speaker cabs with both bands, and in both cases I had to drive the amps to the point of distortion to be heard, and the low-end farted out way before it got to useful volume. That's not the case here at all; the low-end was clear and distortion-free. So...on the basis of actual real-world usage combined with my personal experience, I'd say it's a win on that score even if it's not as dramatic as came across in that video. I have a sneaky feeling that Rob may have been using a single speaker in that Victory 2x12", but that's not based on anything other than my gut feel for what might've had that effect.

On to the dispersion vs beaming effect...it's a similarly mixed bag here. Obviously, a 1x12" will always have much less of a beam-of-death effect than a 2x12" or 4x12" from the front; that much is (I hope) common knowledge. What we did notice is that is sounds almost exactly the same from the back or the sides as it does from a normal listening position in front. Yes, if you stick your ears directly in front of the speaker you do get more treble, but by comparison with standing everywhere else in the room there's nowhere near the difference you get from those listening positions with a "normal" speaker cabs, open- or closed-back.

The practical effect of this is that when using it as a backline, and at (in)appropriate volumes, the rest of the band can hear me as clearly as I can. Particularly the drummer and the guitarist on the other side of the drummer; no more relying on the sound guy's weedy monitors from the mid-80s that he tries to convince you are the best ever made, because the band are hearing the same as me. No, I'm not bitter from years on the toilet circuit at all.

I do have reservations about the fact that the stock configuration is a V30, though. I'm not keen on the V30's sound at all, so that may have coloured my perceptions a bit. I'd much rather hear a G12K-100 in there, and I'd appreciate the extra headroom it gives, in terms of being able to handle more power than my solid state amp can put out...peace of mind, y'know?

tl;dr - While the effects don't seem to be as exaggerated as they are in Rob's video, in practical usage it's more or less equivalent to a standard 2x12", but much lighter. If you're a guitarist with a dodgy back (like me), or you don't want to become one, these cabs are among the best options out there.

fretmeister

Seriously looking at one of these to go with my Mini JCM800.

Maybe with a G12-65 if it will fit.