So how tough is it to make a career in the world of guitar?

WiresDreamDisasters

Those of you who are in it - how tough is it?

Ironically enough, my career has never been strictly guitar related. It's mostly been music tech, software, QA, audio engineering, and product development. Guitar has always been a 'hobby' but one I've taken seriously.

Never seriously given a guitar-based career a go though. 

IvisonGuitars

Are you talking playing or making or technical or retail?

WiresDreamDisasters

miserneil said:

Are you talking playing or making or technical or retail?

Literally anything really. Could be marketing for guitar, performing, running an amp company or pedal company, etc.. etc..

I guess I'm curious on comparing the two sides of the music industry. Particularly UK based. Coz America looks like a different kettle of fish.

IvisonGuitars

WiresDreamDisasters said:

miserneil said:

Are you talking playing or making or technical or retail?

Literally anything really. Could be marketing for guitar, performing, running an amp company or pedal company, etc.. etc..

I guess I'm curious on comparing the two sides of the music industry. Particularly UK based. Coz America looks like a different kettle of fish.

Right, ok.

Well, I was a touring guitar tech for 15 years which paid well and I got to see the world many times over whilst being surrounded by guitars BUT the downside is you are away from home a lot and with a young family, that’s very hard.

When I came off the road ‘properly’ I decided to start Ivison Guitars which, after it first year is holding its own nicely and I already have work booked in till July so I can’t complain at all really.

I don’t think it’ll make me a millionaire any time soon but I’m in a job where I can’t wait to get into the workshop every morning and genuinely love what I do

p90fool

It's very hard to quantify. I set out to become a pro guitarist in my mid-30s and after three or four months I landed on my feet, but that was due to a very particular set of circumstances. 

In hindsight I carved out a perfect little niche, but my approach was totally naive. I got lucky, but on the other hand I worked like hell to put myself out there so being in the right place at the right time wasn't a total accident. 

I made a pretty good living which I only abandoned when my marriage took a nosedive. I'm pretty sure I'd networked enough to sustain it for many years if I'd wanted to. 

I can be more specific about how I made it work if you like. 

GoldenEraGuitars

I walked away from a well paid job (the business I ran for over a decade went bust a few weeks ago) to pursue SC Relics. I’ve only been self employed for 15 months now and while I have a record number of orders and months of guaranteed work ahead of me I still have next to no disposable income. But I do have a mortgage and 3 children and that all comes before my needs.

As @miserneil said above, the fact that you walk into your own workshop anytime you want and do something you enjoy on your own timetable means more than earning extra money doing a job you don’t like. 

What ive learned about going self employed in the music world is you really do have prioritise where your money goes because there isn’t much at the start. But thankfully I can see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel 

jeztone2

I’d say look at other countries. I’ve always played music. Been in bands. Done the odd paid session. But if I could do it again. I think I’d have relocated. Musicians are not treated well in this society. Whenever I go abroad, they seem more valued. A couple of school friends are techs. But that happened by chance for both of them. 

 

spark240

A successful you tube channel seems quite lucrative these days...i.e Tim Pierce...

mgaw

Rob Chapman seems to have got himselof nicely set up,   many pies many many pies!! but I digress aoart from his weight the model of demonstrator/musician/personality/retailer/youtuber would be the way for some

Caffeine_Vampire

As a player? Not easy. Crazy tough if you have family commitments. Fingers and pies are the way. 

Creed_Clicks

jeztone2 said:

I’d say look at other countries. I’ve always played music. Been in bands. Done the odd paid session. But if I could do it again. I think I’d have relocated. Musicians are not treated well in this society. Whenever I go abroad, they seem more valued. A couple of school friends are techs. But that happened by chance for both of them. 

 

Where out of curiosity? I have friends who have gigged in Toronto and speak highly of the audiences there (in the original music scene) and they're from Ireland.
I have gigged professionally and semi professionaly in covers bands. There's a living there if you want it, but my experience in the original music game was no money, but a lot of fun, and it's a different kind of animal.
I'm not playing live really at the moment, and would love to do it, but am about to relocate this year to Spain, so haven't commited to much in the last year or so.
I have no idea what Spain will be like for musicians. I won't be in a tourist spot to play in ex pat bars, so will have to delve into some kind of local scene....

DrJazzTap

I would love to do it. My gf is encouraging me to do something other than an office based job, which ive been doing for the last 20 years. 
I think you don't have to play like Guthrie to make a living from it. I would love to do something like music therapy for adults with learning disablities.

WiresDreamDisasters

DrJazzTap said:

I would love to do it. My gf is encouraging me to do something other than an office based job, which ive been doing for the last 20 years. 
I think you don't have to play like Guthrie to make a living from it. I would love to do something like music therapy for adults with learning disablities.

Something like that would be amazing for sure!

Creed_Clicks

My ambition is to record an EP. I've recorded on other people's music several times over the years, but I'd love to just record a bunch of my own songs, put them online, and either play a few gigs, or video myself playing live and put it online. That's it!

guitars4you

I started in retail over 40 years ago - Initially stepped into a new family music retail business that was 2/3 years old and I worked Saturdays, holidays and skived some school days as an 'apprentice ship' before going full time at 18 - Helped to develop the business nicely before selling it to a larger company back in 1987 - But have twice started a guitar retail business from scratch - Started and sold one in the 90's and now I am about 15 years into this journey and it will be my last

However I'm not so sure you could start a retail guitar business to day with small capital - The old days and many businesses started of by emptying the band's transit van - So open a lock up unit with the PA, drum kit, back line and 2/3 guitars - Many stories of this in the 60's and 70's - But today with £200K capital you'd probably find you'd only have a small offering, when you look at the commitment the major brands require - The return on capital in our trade is not exactly enticing, be it me or big stores like Anderton's - But it is what we know and it is what pays a decent wage

Yet you don't have to be big to compete and make a living - But you do need to be clever - Today, in the right city with a decent population, if I had to start again I'd open a 'work shop' based retail business - Big on repairs and set-ups and support this with a good selection of accessories and spares - Knowing that I would not wish to compete with the big box shifters, I'd further support this with a tasty selection of 20/30 nice used guitars, plus pedals, to fatten up the stores display - It would add some character and interest and the icing on the cake regarding used guitar sales, but the bulk of the business would be service related

@wiresdreamdisasters ;; - Interesting you mention the USA - I always like the looks of specialist guitar shops like Mark's Guitar Loft - Proves you don't need to be the biggest to have a fine reputation as one of 'THE' Specialists within the trade

I only know retail - I can't build/design - I certainly would not be good enough to be a pro player - But I like what I do - Just as well as I'm not sure how employable I would be, in any other sector - Especially as I have no training/qualification - Yet I know full well that if I had to start again from scratch that I know I could with out any hesitation

DrJazzTap

WiresDreamDisasters said:

DrJazzTap said:

 I would love to do something like music therapy for adults with learning disablities.

Something like that would be amazing for sure!

It would definitely be more rewarding than telesales. The key is being enthused about what you do for a living. Im becoming increasingly aware that the bullshit day to day of an office environment isn't really for me. When i  left college back in 2001 i didn't want to go onto uni.
I had no real direction from the teachers on the pop music course i had finished. I could only think of becoming a guitar teacher? That was it. I've always liked the psychology behind music, why certain sounds evoke certain emotions. And being able to use my limited musical ability to give others happiness would be so much more rewarding than hitting a "target".

octatonic

IMHO there is more money to be made doing other things and it can be more rewarding to keep music as a hobby business rather than relying on it for your main income.

I say this having done both- from 2004-2008 I was working out of a couple of studios in US and Switzerland and doing a bit of touring.
You are always hustling for work, which isn't amazingly well paid and there are a lot of guitarists trying to do it.
Also 'music that pays' is often pretty different from 'music that I like' unless you have a pretty mainstream taste.

Repairing is more steady but also not amazingly well paid.
You also get a high number of unreasonable folks who expect the earth and pay peanuts.

Instrument building is almost impossible to earn more than what you put in unless you want to make cheap Strat and Tele necks/bodies all day, maybe not even then.

If I had my time again I would have started drumming sooner and gone down that route, as there is always work for a drummer and you can juggle being in a few bands at once more easily.

Currently I'm doing corporate video work- I sort of fell into it when we moved to Singapore.
The video work is better paid than anything I've ever done in music and I can keep it at 20 hours a week which gives me time to do music in whatever way I want to.

Legionreturns

WiresDreamDisasters said:

DrJazzTap said:

I would love to do it. My gf is encouraging me to do something other than an office based job, which ive been doing for the last 20 years. 
I think you don't have to play like Guthrie to make a living from it. I would love to do something like music therapy for adults with learning disablities.

Something like that would be amazing for sure!

Well I'm pretty much a bog standard musician who can plod on 3 instruments and a bit of vox. 

My niche is that I have many years of working with kids and adults with SEN, challenging behaviour, and know how to relate to young people generally.  

I only started YBTB off properly in May, although I'd been on a long term contract with one council to provide music sessions for their youth clubs. 

YBTB has taken off surprisingly quickly. I've already won several big contracts, funded by councils, lottery and Children in Need. I'm now in that sticky place where I could probably jack my, now only 3.5 / 4 days a week school job in and start seriously pushing the therapy / wellbeing and corporate team building side of the business and make a decent living.

It's a huge leap of faith though, and honestly, I'd prefer to do it with someone else, even if they're just a second pair of eyes and brain. I've got a few coaches that work ad hoc for me, but none of them are in a position to put any money in to become a business partner.

It's a difficult one. It will get there and I could accelerate it by going full time, and I can only keep doing the extra hours for so long before I burn out. 

One thing I do know, is that I'm pulling in way more than I ever could as a gigging musician, even if I was two or three times as good a player as I am! 

EricTheWeary

Legionreturns said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

DrJazzTap said:

I would love to do it. My gf is encouraging me to do something other than an office based job, which ive been doing for the last 20 years. 
I think you don't have to play like Guthrie to make a living from it. I would love to do something like music therapy for adults with learning disablities.

Something like that would be amazing for sure!

Well I'm pretty much a bog standard musician who can plod on 3 instruments and a bit of vox. 

My niche is that I have many years of working with kids and adults with SEN, challenging behaviour, and know how to relate to young people generally.  

I only started YBTB off properly in May, although I'd been on a long term contract with one council to provide music sessions for their youth clubs. 

YBTB has taken off surprisingly quickly. I've already won several big contracts, funded by councils, lottery and Children in Need. I'm now in that sticky place where I could probably jack my, now only 3.5 / 4 days a week school job in and start seriously pushing the therapy / wellbeing and corporate team building side of the business and make a decent living.

It's a huge leap of faith though, and honestly, I'd prefer to do it with someone else, even if they're just a second pair of eyes and brain. I've got a few coaches that work ad hoc for me, but none of them are in a position to put any money in to become a business partner.

It's a difficult one. It will get there and I could accelerate it by going full time, and I can only keep doing the extra hours for so long before I burn out. 

One thing I do know, is that I'm pulling in way more than I ever could as a gigging musician, even if I was two or three times as good a player as I am! 

There is certainly a demand for people doing musical work with adults with learning disabilities, it’s a common theme in the day centres I go to and they usually have someone from outside they pay to do it rather than internal staff. However, if you added together all the hours across all the day centres ( in Worcestershire in my case) I think you’d struggle to find something that was equivalent to a full time job. Like a lot of the things mentioned I suspect it’s something that could work as part of a mixed portfolio or you’d have to develop into a stand alone business like YBTB.

DrJazzTap

EricTheWeary said:

Legionreturns said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

DrJazzTap said:

I would love to do it. My gf is encouraging me to do something other than an office based job, which ive been doing for the last 20 years. 
I think you don't have to play like Guthrie to make a living from it. I would love to do something like music therapy for adults with learning disablities.

Something like that would be amazing for sure!

Well I'm pretty much a bog standard musician who can plod on 3 instruments and a bit of vox. 

My niche is that I have many years of working with kids and adults with SEN, challenging behaviour, and know how to relate to young people generally.  

I only started YBTB off properly in May, although I'd been on a long term contract with one council to provide music sessions for their youth clubs. 

YBTB has taken off surprisingly quickly. I've already won several big contracts, funded by councils, lottery and Children in Need. I'm now in that sticky place where I could probably jack my, now only 3.5 / 4 days a week school job in and start seriously pushing the therapy / wellbeing and corporate team building side of the business and make a decent living.

It's a huge leap of faith though, and honestly, I'd prefer to do it with someone else, even if they're just a second pair of eyes and brain. I've got a few coaches that work ad hoc for me, but none of them are in a position to put any money in to become a business partner.

It's a difficult one. It will get there and I could accelerate it by going full time, and I can only keep doing the extra hours for so long before I burn out. 

One thing I do know, is that I'm pulling in way more than I ever could as a gigging musician, even if I was two or three times as good a player as I am! 

There is certainly a demand for people doing musical work with adults with learning disabilities, it’s a common theme in the day centres I go to and they usually have someone from outside they pay to do it rather than internal staff. However, if you added together all the hours across all the day centres ( in Worcestershire in my case) I think you’d struggle to find something that was equivalent to a full time job. Like a lot of the things mentioned I suspect it’s something that could work as part of a mixed portfolio or you’d have to develop into a stand alone business like YBTB.

Thank you guys i may send you some pms later on. I guess part of it comes from my dad. He was an engineer for forty years and used to go on about the importance of a regular income.

I then read a few music bios and the struggling musician is a common theme. That combined with some twattish view about "selling out". 

I've always equated my guitar playing with somebody whose good at football. You can do it for fun but you're never going to play for man u etc

ESBlonde

I've never been fully Pro in the business so I never walked the walk! However I know a large number who have and overwhelmingly it can be a precarious living as a 'guitar player.

The trick seems to be to have a speciality that you can use. That may be acting as an agent for other artists (desk and a phone), Teaching, Sessions, cover/function bands and then playing your own stuff is still a hobby or sideline. I know several people who make a handsome living doing a few regular gigs, but mainly do short sets in old peoples homes in the daytime to entertain them. Is it rock n' roll, well sometimes yes because that generation are now in those places, indeed 70s and 80s music can feature. The old adage of contacts is everything and that odd phonecall can send you on a lucrative journey, if you receive it!

If you have a skill to 'fix' stuff (software, mixers, patch cables, PCs etc.) then find the angle to freelance that as a sideline. Very few people I know earn a living just from playing (that includes players in famous bands). So multiple income streams and possibly passive income (youtube/blog/influencer) seems to be the way to go.