Eastman SB59 issues, advice appreciated!

mbe

My 99 quid new Flying V off ebay had a high action with the bridge bottomed out on the pickguard. Fixed neck, so the angle was fixed incorrectly.
 
Not a problem though because I filed down the arch underneath the tune-o-matic, but bear in mind I paid peanuts for it. (Converting guitar shaped objects into musical instruments being one of my pastimes.)

The retailer of the OP's Eastman owes a full refund. Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that the buyer is entitled to a full refund for defective goods within the first 30 days. No ifs or buts, whatever Eastman say it is Law.

mbe

Further to my above post in case the OP bought the guitar in the Irish Republic then it must be returned to the retailer stating it is formally 'rejected' due to the defects that have been subsequently discovered. In that case the OP can insist on a full refund. The manufacturer's excuses for the defects are irrelevant to the purchaser as the contract is solely between the consumer and the retailer.

gregm

Maynehead said:

Unless your relief is super high, that neck angle is wrong.

With the bridge to the deck and a normal relief, your strings should be pretty much resting on the frets if the neck angle is correct.

The relief is perfect, there is no way of lowering the action on this without filing the saddles. Thanks.

gregm

mbe said:

Further to my above post in case the OP bought the guitar in the Irish Republic then it must be returned to the retailer stating it is formally 'rejected' due to the defects that have been subsequently discovered. In that case the OP can insist on a full refund. The manufacturer's excuses for the defects are irrelevant to the purchaser as the contract is solely between the consumer and the retailer.

It was bought online from a UK retailer, it took 3 weeks from order to get it in the first place and as I said they are willing to swap it but are saying that both the shop owner and the director of Eastman have said that there is nothing wrong with the bridge! Paid for this on the 6th Feb, got it on the 28th and reported the issues on the 3rd. Since then I have been saying I am not happy with the bridge or the mistake on the cover. Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated!

gregm

mbe said:

My 99 quid new Flying V off ebay had a high action with the bridge bottomed out on the pickguard. Fixed neck, so the angle was fixed incorrectly.
 
Not a problem though because I filed down the arch underneath the tune-o-matic, but bear in mind I paid peanuts for it. (Converting guitar shaped objects into musical instruments being one of my pastimes.)

The retailer of the OP's Eastman owes a full refund. Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that the buyer is entitled to a full refund for defective goods within the first 30 days. No ifs or buts, whatever Eastman say it is Law.

I was aware of this but with a guitar it is a grey area for me to say there are defects with the build and both the shop and Eastman claiming this is actually part of the design! These are the quotes received from the director of Eastman! I will push for money back and see what happens.

· The saddle is not too low. Our carve is very steep, so it looks like that – the middle point of our top is much higher than any other maple carved top – it is in the violin tradition.

· The backplate is not razor cut sharp – This happens sometimes, since it is done by hand – only if we’d CnC this,we can get it razor sharp. It literally is like it was with Gibson in the 50-ies – manmade…

Rebar

I think it's time to simply request a full refund. Otherwise, tell them that you plan on contacting Trading Standards and on taking legal action if they continue to fob you off (which is exactly what they're doing when they talk about 'their' design and the peculiarities of hand finishing). Take no crap. 

Fuengi

I'm not the first to wonder out loud how Eastman make everything 'by hand' yet supply the industry in huge quantities.

richardhomer

The ‘geometry’ of that guitar is wrong - the neck angle is too shallow. If you have the frets dressed at some point in the future - or decide you prefer more relief - it will become impossible to lower the action. On a set-neck guitar, that is a manufacturing fault - hence a refund should be a straight-forward matter.

Danielsguitars

I agree with others that neck angle or carve is wrong, the other thing to consider is over time with fretboard levels and new frets it'll get to the point you can't set it up properly unless it's for slide

That handmade argument is complete bollocks imo, i handmake my backplates and sand the back by hand so they fit, i get that backplate recess can alter slightly if using a pin router, there's template wear, cutter wear or a pin could be off a smidge but you fit the cover to that guitar 

gregm

It is difficult to show the messy finish on a photo, this shows it a bit better than earlier. If it was the only fault I would have been un-happy but let it go. But the bridge is a problem down the line I cannot forget about on a guitar even a third of the price of this. Thank you for everyone who gave advice, I was starting to doubt myself when both parties were saying there is nothing wrong!

guitars4you

gregm said:

mbe said:

Further to my above post in case the OP bought the guitar in the Irish Republic then it must be returned to the retailer stating it is formally 'rejected' due to the defects that have been subsequently discovered. In that case the OP can insist on a full refund. The manufacturer's excuses for the defects are irrelevant to the purchaser as the contract is solely between the consumer and the retailer.

It was bought online from a UK retailer, it took 3 weeks from order to get it in the first place and as I said they are willing to swap it but are saying that both the shop owner and the director of Eastman have said that there is nothing wrong with the bridge! Paid for this on the 6th Feb, got it on the 28th and reported the issues on the 3rd. Since then I have been saying I am not happy with the bridge or the mistake on the cover. Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated!

whilst the return policy is 14 days from the parcel arriving - As you reported it on the 3rd (Only a few days later) you are now protected regarding your statutory rights under LDS Reg - If you wish to return it for repair, replacement, refund, you are entitled to do so

Jez6345789

That’s bad but not Gibson bad lol

frankly get your money back and move on. Eastman seem to be hyping the brand as the traditionalists champion but if this is hand made give me cnc any day. Lol

As said look at a good classic era Japanese made les Paul would be a good place to start. I traded out my collection when the prices peaked and convinced myself to get a proper Gibson now back with the Greco and loving it.

chrisj1602

Definitely get a refund or exchange, I’ve played a few Eastmans and none of them have had a bridge that low. The cavity wouldn’t bother me personally but the bridge is wrong.

gregm

mgaw said:

get a refund its not fit for purpose, simple as that...dare I ask where you bought it from....dont be shy in telling us on here either...with the know how on here you will get this sorted in your favour pronto...the guitar is wrong it goes back you get your money, buy something 2nd hand of someone here    simples as Theresa Maybot May would say

Still trying to sort this out, refused a refund and said a swap is only option. I will get holy grail of guitars if I agree, said no then offered partial refund. Sent a polite reply asking for him to make an offer rather than for me just randomly picking a number. Now refund is off the table and he wants guitar collected next week. I am going to pay for a 3rd party report on it before it is returned to back up my rights. It is Richards guitars, was not going to name and get in to all this. Never had so much hassle and time wasted so might as well, good will has gone out the window at this stage! I won't be home for at least a month from this Thursday and this is turning in to a complete waste of money!

guitargeek62

gregm said:

mgaw said:

get a refund its not fit for purpose, simple as that...dare I ask where you bought it from....dont be shy in telling us on here either...with the know how on here you will get this sorted in your favour pronto...the guitar is wrong it goes back you get your money, buy something 2nd hand of someone here    simples as Theresa Maybot May would say

Still trying to sort this out, refused a refund and said a swap is only option. I will get holy grail of guitars if I agree, said no then offered partial refund. Sent a polite reply asking for him to make an offer rather than for me just randomly picking a number. Now refund is off the table and he wants guitar collected next week. I am going to pay for a 3rd party report on it before it is returned to back up my rights. It is Richards guitars, was not going to name and get in to all this. Never had so much hassle and time wasted so might as well, good will has gone out the window at this stage! I won't be home for at least a month from this Thursday and this is turning in to a complete waste of money!

Was it a custom order at all? If not, then Richards have no leg to stand on under LDS regs, and he should already know that. Don’t worry too much, the law’s on your side.

johnl

Give them a link to this thread as well, has helped others in the past. You are certainly well within your rights to return the guitar particularly as you raised the issues within 14 days of receipt. Might be worth speaking to Trading Standards...

JDE

As above, unless it was a custom spec (ie not just picking one from pictures of finished guitars because you liked the top or whatever) then you absolutely cannot be refused a refund as you’ve had it for such a short timeframe. Get your money back and get something else. And I would actually recommend you buy from someone else because they’re trying to bully you into making a choice that suits them, not you. 
If you bought for it using a card and they start being dicks, talk to your provider. I know from personal experience Visa will give you your dollar back and then squeeze the balls off the merchant. 

I know this sounds a bit ruthless but from someone who runs a business selling goods (not guitars) often sight-unseen, some merchants are just arseholes and some manufacturers refuse to believe there is any margin for their error. In any manufacturing, “things happen” and I am wary of anyone who says “yeah that’s fine” without actually getting the item back and looking at it. Emails and pics aren’t enough. The seller should refund, accept the return and then go from there with the manufacturer. Once the buyer has safely returned the item and got their refund it is no longer their concern whether the item is defective or not. End of story. 

gregm

JDE said:

As above, unless it was a custom spec (ie not just picking one from pictures of finished guitars because you liked the top or whatever) then you absolutely cannot be refused a refund as you’ve had it for such a short timeframe. Get your money back and get something else. And I would actually recommend you buy from someone else because they’re trying to bully you into making a choice that suits them, not you. 
If you bought for it using a card and they start being dicks, talk to your provider. I know from personal experience Visa will give you your dollar back and then squeeze the balls off the merchant. 

I know this sounds a bit ruthless but from someone who runs a business selling goods (not guitars) often sight-unseen, some merchants are just arseholes and some manufacturers refuse to believe there is any margin for their error. In any manufacturing, “things happen” and I am wary of anyone who says “yeah that’s fine” without actually getting the item back and looking at it. Emails and pics aren’t enough. The seller should refund, accept the return and then go from there with the manufacturer. Once the buyer has safely returned the item and got their refund it is no longer their concern whether the item is defective or not. End of story. 

No picked from a finished guitar, not in any way custom order. Emails tonight received as below!!

SALLY

 

I am DEEPLY concerned about his ability to get this guitar back to us undamaged.  I am desperately worried about this.   The communications I have received demonstrate this man isn't concerned about receiving any help - he is so aggressive that  I am concerned the guitar may even be damaged already?

 

I have CLEARLY told this gentleman that we would replace the guitar - from the beginning.  I know you have also offered to collect it.  Nothing we can do is enough for him.  There is literally nothing I can say or do that will passify him.  That is his prerogative however sad. 

 

I think it is best we ask the customer to send the guitar back to us - we can then pay the delivery charge when it gets back to us if we find the guitar to be faulty in any way.  This way we avoid liability if the guitar is damaged already or damaged on its route back to us. 

 

Best Regards

Richard

 

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On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 9:21 PM Richards Guitars <richard@rguitars.co.uk> wrote:

Oh go away you silly silly self centred selfish horrible little man.

 

DO NOT EMAIL ME AGAIN!!!!

 

Sally PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GET THIS GUITAR COLLECTED ASAP

Best Regards

Richard

 

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On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 8:52 PM Greg Moore <greg@--------.com> wrote:

I’ve had enough time wasted on this, this is not only my view that the guitar is not fit for purpose but is a fact and backed up by everyone that has seen it. Selling a faulty guitar and refusing to confirm what the photos clearly show, then causing undue stress for what you and your staff admitted to be a reasonable person will make you morally bankrupt, looking after that customer is the retribution. Of course that is only if it is the customer you care about instead of the money.

 

When you confirm that I will be getting a full refund and when it will be paid then get Sally to contact me. I will be getting a third party report from a shop in Dublin before the guitar is sent back as proof of claim and advice on my rights.

 

 

 

 

From: Richards Guitars [mailto:richard@rguitars.co.uk]
Sent: 23 March 2019 19:03
To: Greg Moore
Cc: Customer Service; Teresa Cholerton
Subject: Re: A couple of comments from the Director of Eastman

 

Hi 

 

No discount is reasonable if we assume your view the guitar is faulty is correct therefore no discount is available.

 

Offering a discount on a faulty guitar would make me morally bankrupt 

 

Sally will contact you on Tuesday to arrange collection.

 

Richard 

 

On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 at 17:46, Greg Moore <greg@----------.com> wrote:

A partial refund is not my only alternative, a full refund is also acceptable if I can organise the guitar to be lifted.

 

I have no experience in what would be fair as I have never been in this position before and I don’t feel comfortable just choosing a number at random, from your experience you can offer something relative to your margin and what Eastman will be able to help you with or I can ask on the forum I got advice off what would be normal in this situation?

 

Thanks.

Philly_Q

Oh gosh, now we know which shop it was.... here we go....

I hope you mange to get things sorted out.

TADodger

Do you have legal cover on your Insurance’s? They will assist with, or even provide, a draft letter that states your legal position. 

I am familiar with Richards Guitars, and, as much as the in store experience was good, in my personal opinion, I would say that he has no grasp of the actual legal requirements that his business is subject to, or, simply chooses to plow his own furrow that suits his requirements best.

As others have said, given the timescales involved, and assuming that this wasn’t a custom order (still subject to fitness for purpose) you are covered by distance selling regulations as you purchased on line, and, as I understand it, can return goods, even without a fault, within seven days and have 14 days from delivery within which you MUST receive a refund if you ask for one. 

Also, I understand  that for distance selling, retailers MUST advise the customer that they can cancel their order up to 14 days AFTER delivery of the order ( cancel means tell the retailer that you don’t want the order, no reason required) and if they have not told the customer about this right to cancel then the customer can legally cancel any time within the next twelve months ( from receipt of goods).