Has anyone played a reissue that is good as an original

Jez6345789

with Gibson and Fender reissues now way past the age when the originals started to become collectible and sought after have any of the reissue attempts ever reached those levels of sonic nirvana of what they seek to replicate.

i less interested in the wrong position pickgaurd old wood versus new wood 
there are simply tens of thousands reissues out there has one never exceeded or rivalled  what they are copying.

i appreciate that not everyone has ever played a legendary burst or a classic Strat but you can hear them on you tube or dotted across albums from the 60’s onwards.

Danielsguitars

The big problem when comparing to records is the way it's recorded imo, i don't think that's a good way to evaluate old vs new guitars

The only way to do it would be side by side and unplugged first because you'll hear and feel a difference before you even get into plugged in

Other than that i can't say if reissues are as good but i do get to play some nice vintage stuff and they do feel play and sound different to any modern ones I've tried

Nerine

I think I’ve played some good guitars and played some dogs. 
Some of them have been old/collectible/vintage. 
Some have been new/reissues. 
I think a good guitar is a good guitar regardless of age and origin. 
However, I do think that any guitar needs to be played for a good while for it to realise its potential. 
Ive picked up new £10k+ Les Pauls that have played like shit. 
I’ve picked up 20yr old Squiers that have been completely sublime. 
I think a guitar improves with age, in general, but I’ve also picked up guitars off the peg brand new that have been incredible. And I’ve bought them. 

stickyfiddle

My 2018 ES-330 is genuinely as good as the vintage ones I tried early last year. Maybe not quite as much mojo, but also more comfortable frets and without the crcscked finish on the back of neck

Jez6345789

Yeah I agree listening to records was probably not the best analogy.

@customkits you specialise in building guitars to old school specs and techniques ISTR and have had the opportunity to have a few golden year guitars on the bench. 

Other than the whole mojo how close do you feel you get

interesting on the ES330 as they are largely a plywood box 

slacker

A friend of mine haa a 56 lp custom he had a reissue he sold to get it. He couldn't ab them. They are both great guitars but the real one has something extra. 

I've got a very nice les Paul with the IMHO best paf copies on it. At the water rats jam I was handed a burst conversion. Best guitar I have ever played. 

Gibson recently reissued the brothers in arms 58 owned by Mark knopfler. However the 58 was funded by the royalties of the album recorded with a reissue. There are some sublime Gibson sounds on the title track. 

I gave a wisdom to the great guitar comment. 

monquixote

There are plenty of valuable old guitars that are total dogs.

It's considered by lots of people in the know that Japanese Gretsch guitars are better than the originals ever were.

I played a 70s strat in a shop in the 90s when they were dirt cheap that was an absolute PoS and all the shop staff were laughing at the idea that they were becoming collectable. It's probably worth several grand now and still shit.

meltedbuzzbox

monquixote said:

There are plenty of valuable old guitars that are total dogs.

It's considered by lots of people in the know that Japanese Gretsch guitars are better than the originals ever were.

I played a 70s strat in a shop in the 90s when they were dirt cheap that was an absolute PoS and all the shop staff were laughing at the idea that they were becoming collectable. It's probably worth several grand now and still shit.

It's only a matter of time before the 80s ones become more desirable and I don't mean just the Dan Smith stuff

Greatape

Guitars do benefit from playing in, I would agree. Will wood sitting underneath a thick poly finish change? Dunno.

I have played many expensive, modern guitars - in stores and owned by friends - but none came close to an early seventies Tele a friend has, acoustically. Truly sublime. However, I'm not sure the electronics are giving full voice to those qualities. 

guitars4you

Not a clear cut answer - I'll try a generalized approach without making it into a war 'n' peace novel 

At this stage I'll go with all original vintage examples of the key/desirable models - All are now valuable and collectible - But not all are good regarding tonal character + playing performance - But the current ticket price is generally based on desirability + originality and not any key performance criteria (which granted is a matter of taste)

Some of the best old guitars I've played have been 'players grade' models - More 'affordable' - But for what ever reason in the past they have now become non original - As such they can be 'rebuilt' to reflect the playing criteria of many of today's players - ie flatter fingerboard radius, mainly on Fenders, with chunkier frets - You change one component on an original guitar and all hell let's loose - Not such an issue on a 'players grade model' as any serious depreciation has already been adjusted

Certain businesses like @jumping@shadows is an expert with many such 'restorations'

Many new Custom Shop  Fender replicas, certainly from the past 10 years or so, are generally far more consistent regarding playing criteria/playing performance than an old guitar - Maybe a good old 'un still has some magical tonal character, that a new CS model is still thriving for - But with a price ratio of around 5 : 1 then you decide if such a marginal gain is worth it - Yet equally the consistent quality of current CS models ensures they are generally superior to many 'mediocre' old examples - IMO the 9.5" fingerboard radius + chunkier frets ensures most CS models offer a more 'slick' playing performance than any old example - Performance wise it is a bit like driving an old 60's sports car, with no power steering etc v a modern sports car with updated criteria - Granted the old 60's model has character, but generally the new version will be far more reliable on a day to day basis

Either way I think we are fortunate to have so many good guitars available to play these days

JDE

The 61RI SG I bought from here (terribly sorry, I can’t remember who from!) and then sold on here (terribly sorry I can’t remember who to!) was as good as any vintage SG I’ve ever played. 
I have owned two vintage ES330’s (a 65 and a 67 if that matters) and neither were particularly fabulous, I’ve played a few reissues that blew both of my originals out of the water. 
I’ve played a few vintage Teles and thought they were all fantastic, but I’m not sure how much of that is me just thinking “omgomgomg” or if it is comparably better than my Tele or a CS or whatever. Unless you are directly A/B’ing something, using the same amp and room, so much of it is psychological, I think.

interesting thread, would be really curious to see what people think about this with acoustics, as that’s probably the real litmus test.

impmann

Consider this:

Gilmour is auctioning the iconic black Strat and keeping the Custom Shop replica of it.

Clapton sold Blackie and Brownie - plays Custom Shop guitars.

Andy Summers played a CS replica of the Sunburst Tele and the red 62 Strat for the last Police tour.

Having owned a “Golden Era” Strat myself, I’d argue that the current CS stuff is at least as good as the vast majority of old Fenders. The ‘exceptional’ ones are few and far between and most are more of an emotional connection to the player than any measurable improvement.

I’m not going to comment about Gibsons as the older I get, the more I realise I genuinely don’t care about them or the BS that surrounds them. 

richardhomer

It’s probably worth pointing out that most famous players - who can afford any guitar they desire - tend not to play vintage guitars these gays.

I saw EC at Hyde Park last year and his tone from a CS Strat and modern Tweed Twin was exceptional. Knopfler usually plays signature Strats, as does Beck - and post auction - so will Gilmour.

I’m not suggesting the very finest vintage examples might not have some tonal advantage - but in the context of a mix, it is pretty marginal.

Last year I sold my 1964 335 which I’d owned for 15 years, simply because when I wanted to play a guitar with humbuckers - the one I always picked up was my PRS DGT....

ICBM

Yes, I've played loads of reissues that were as good or better than some of the old dogs I've come across. The old ones vary a lot too, probably even more so than the new ones.

The best Les Paul (actually best electric guitar) I've ever played was a '56 Custom. It just had something magical about it that no other one - new *or* old - has had. The best Strat I've ever played was a '69 - now considered a vintage guitar, but very much not so at the time the vintage market got going. The best Tele was a CS 'closet classic' 63 Custom Tele. All of these just sounded "more alive" than any other guitar of the same model I've come across, and "more like a (whichever one it was)" - like the character of the guitar was exaggerated. The Strat in particular just made anything I played on it sound like Hendrix or Blackmore (allowing for my lack of ability to play like them).

The best acoustic is my ten year old Gibson Dove. The tone is perfectly balanced and it's the only acoustic I can simply pick up, play anything at all on, and it sounds just like the acoustic guitar sound in my head. It took me the best part of thirty years to find a guitar like that, and when I did luckily it was affordable because it wasn't "vintage". I also did have a wonderful '61 J-45 which I miss to this day, but I would have to say the Dove is probably better - it's more versatile, certainly less of a fight to make sound how I want, and it isn't as ridiculously string-sensitive as the J-45 was, which seemed to have a window of opportunity of about a day between the strings sounding too new and sounding dead.

matt1973

Worst guitar I ever bought was a 1970 Strat. Utter garbage. I suppose it could be argued to fall under the ‘original’ category. Best guitar was a ‘82 Fullerton reissue that had Van Zandt Pickups. Not a particularly accurate reissue but it was extremely good. So it’s a thumbs up for reissues from me.

Bigsby

JDE said:

Unless you are directly A/B’ing something, using the same amp and room, so much of it is psychological, I think.

Very true - but even if you're using the same amp and room, the difference can still be psychological - only blind testing can hope to remove that element. Sound wise, blind testing would be relatively easy to achieve via recordings, but in terms of feel, I guess it's a lot more challenging.

The big issue here is generalisations. There are bound to be vintage guitars that are unspectacular as instruments, and modern equivalents that are outstandingly good. But people don't tend to think in terms of individual instruments, but instead want to know if 'vintage is better'. That's never going to make much sense, especially as 'vintage' now covers at least three decades, and a period of major change in the production of guitars by the major brands.

JDE

@Bigsby absolutely. The “vintage is better” is a lot like the “boutique is better” thing with pedals. It’s easy (cheaper, more availability) to A/B a “boutique” pedal against a mainstream one and people are often really surprised that they prefer the cheaper one. There has been hundreds of threads about this since guitar forums started, basically. It’s what keeps the Classifieds section going

guitars4you

richardhomer said:

It’s probably worth pointing out that most famous players - who can afford any guitar they desire - tend not to play vintage guitars these gays.

I saw EC at Hyde Park last year and his tone from a CS Strat and modern Tweed Twin was exceptional. Knopfler usually plays signature Strats, as does Beck - and post auction - so will Gilmour.

I’m not suggesting the very finest vintage examples might not have some tonal advantage - but in the context of a mix, it is pretty marginal.

Last year I sold my 1964 335 which I’d owned for 15 years, simply because when I wanted to play a guitar with humbuckers - the one I always picked up was my PRS DGT....

impmann said:

Consider this:

Gilmour is auctioning the iconic black Strat and keeping the Custom Shop replica of it.

Clapton sold Blackie and Brownie - plays Custom Shop guitars.

Andy Summers played a CS replica of the Sunburst Tele and the red 62 Strat for the last Police tour.

Having owned a “Golden Era” Strat myself, I’d argue that the current CS stuff is at least as good as the vast majority of old Fenders. The ‘exceptional’ ones are few and far between and most are more of an emotional connection to the player than any measurable improvement.

valid comments from both - and many more names can be added to that list

Danielsguitars

Jez6345789 said:

Yeah I agree listening to records was probably not the best analogy.

@customkits you specialise in building guitars to old school specs and techniques ISTR and have had the opportunity to have a few golden year guitars on the bench. 

Other than the whole mojo how close do you feel you get

interesting on the ES330 as they are largely a plywood box 

I do direct back to back comparisons between them and i only play unplugged then a pro player friend plays them, same amp set up etc and i listen, I'm close enough not to want the burst, there just wasn't enough in it, yes there's a tonal difference but i can only work with what i have available

One thing that sticks out for these old ones is how great the necks are and they all have the same sort of feel, i really think it's that profile is a big part, i just copy that and I've got a 58 dc to restore with a lovely neck, i use that spec on everything, they're just not as big as i keep hearing, no baseball bats anywhere 

I also had a pro tech friend over recently, he does work for a famous guy with lots of vintage stuff, i said what's the neck like compared to real ones he's set up and played, he played it and played it some more and his words were it's fantastic, that's good enough for me, he was still talking about that neck the next day so i know it's not just me thinking it's good

ICBM

customkits said:

One thing that sticks out for these old ones is how great the necks are and they all have the same sort of feel, i really think it's that profile is a big part, i just copy that and I've got a 58 dc to restore with a lovely neck, i use that spec on everything, they're just not as big as i keep hearing, no baseball bats anywhere

Apparently they do exist, but I've played and worked on dozens of 50s Gibsons, and owned four myself (no, no Les Paul Standards ) and I've never come across a single one with anything like the comedy baseball bats they call a "50s neck" which seems to be what's fashionable now.

The only guitars with necks that fat normally back then were things like 50s Hofners with no truss rods, and they weren't thought of as having good necks at all.

IvisonGuitars

ICBM said:

customkits said:

One thing that sticks out for these old ones is how great the necks are and they all have the same sort of feel, i really think it's that profile is a big part, i just copy that and I've got a 58 dc to restore with a lovely neck, i use that spec on everything, they're just not as big as i keep hearing, no baseball bats anywhere

Apparently they do exist, but I've played and worked on dozens of 50s Gibsons, and owned four myself (no, no Les Paul Standards ) and I've never come across a single one with anything like the comedy baseball bats they call a "50s neck" which seems to be what's fashionable now.

The only guitars with necks that fat normally back then were things like 50s Hofners with no truss rods, and they weren't thought of as having good necks at all.

Totally agree. The baseball bat neck of the original Gibson Reissues is nothing like I’ve found on the 50’s Juniors and Specials I’ve owned. Not even close.

impmann said:

Consider this:

Gilmour is auctioning the iconic black Strat and keeping the Custom Shop replica of it.

Clapton sold Blackie and Brownie - plays Custom Shop guitars.

Andy Summers played a CS replica of the Sunburst Tele and the red 62 Strat for the last Police tour.

Having owned a “Golden Era” Strat myself, I’d argue that the current CS stuff is at least as good as the vast majority of old Fenders. The ‘exceptional’ ones are few and far between and most are more of an emotional connection to the player than any measurable improvement.

I’m not going to comment about Gibsons as the older I get, the more I realise I genuinely don’t care about them or the BS that surrounds them. 

While I would agree there’s such a small margin in Fender vintage vs Fender Custom Shop, also consider that these are iconic guitars and, for the players that still own them, I’m sure the insurance value certainly plays a part in the decision to take them on tour or not. Springsteen used to employ a chap who’s sole job was to accompany his Esquire wherever it went until he had an exact replica made and now tours with that.