Danny Baker

Bridgehouse

@Emp_Fab - sorry, but you are wrong. 

Context includes time. Eg “historical context”

The performing monkey synonym is all well and good - but it’s anachronistic. It would have had relevance in it’s day, but many wouldn’t recognise the reference now.

It’s a bit like the phrase “powder monkey” - which historically was a young boy small enough to get through the opening in the gunpowder hold on sailing warships to serve powder for gun crews. In it’s day, it described people who did shit jobs. Again, not everyone will know the reference - nowadays it’s often used to describe white males who try to appropriate black culture (offensively)

Baker made a very big mistake - he said his intention was to highlight royal privilege and the “performing monkey” analogy of it - instead, he used a photo with absolutely no explanatory text for his reference and thus the man on the Clapham omnibus would on balance probably infer it was a racial slur. 

As many have pointed out - crass stupidity and probably too smug for his own good. Simply naïve? Sorry, no. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. 

Emp_Fab

It seems I’ve been misinformed!  The phrase “performing monkey” does not play a part in this.  Apologies.

My (slightly) revised position is that he’s dafter than I thought, but I still think he shouldn’t have been sacked.  It was a picture that has comedic value and he dropped a bollock, but he immediately deleted it and apologised.  Pursuing him after this is ridiculous.

The BBC didn’t fire Alan Sugar did they?  Oh no... too much of a ratings draw to apply the same rules to him.

EricTheWeary

Bridgehouse said:

@Emp_Fab - sorry, but you are wrong. 

Context includes time. Eg “historical context”

The performing monkey synonym is all well and good - but it’s anachronistic. It would have had relevance in it’s day, but many wouldn’t recognise the reference now.

It’s a bit like the phrase “powder monkey” - which historically was a young boy small enough to get through the opening in the gunpowder hold on sailing warships to serve powder for gun crews. In it’s day, it described people who did shit jobs. Again, not everyone will know the reference - nowadays it’s often used to describe white males who try to appropriate black culture (offensively)

Baker made a very big mistake - he said his intention was to highlight royal privilege and the “performing monkey” analogy of it - instead, he used a photo with absolutely no explanatory text for his reference and thus the man on the Clapham omnibus would on balance probably infer it was a racial slur. 

As many have pointed out - crass stupidity and probably too smug for his own good. Simply naïve? Sorry, no. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. 

...and as many people on here have said Baker was extremely well placed to understand why it would cause offence and to have known better. Former journalist, TV and radio professional and football pundit. I’m sure Baker could write the book on why people would take offence at this ( and he possibly will, pre order at amazon now) so to have done so at the least worst quite stupid. 

seany65

Should we really have to constantly consider that every single word we say or write, could be complained about by someone who wants to be offended on behalf of someone else?

Pretty soon there'll be a list of words that we can use which no-one could possibly be offended by, but then someone will come along and think of a reason why some of those words could, possibly, theoretically be taken in the wrong way by someone else and then those words will also be illegal.

Wouldn't surprise me if one day the word "evolving" (as used in Strat_a_tat_tat's post) would be made illegal as many Christians don't believe in evolution and could therefore possibly, find it offensive.

Emp_Fab

Bridgehouse said:

 Sorry, no. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. 

What? So you’re saying that despite never having shown any signs of racism in his entire career, he chose to suddenly out himself by deliberately making as extreme a racist statement as possible (calling the new Royal baby a monkey), despite knowing it would certainly get him fired, then immediately deleted it and apologised?

You’re actually saying that are you?!

Bridgehouse

seany65 said:

Should we really have to constantly consider that every single word we say or write, could be complained about by someone who wants to be offended on behalf of someone else?

Pretty soon there'll be a list of words that we can use which no-one could possibly be offended by, but then someone will come along and think of a reason why some of those words could, possibly, theoretically be taken in the wrong way by someone else and then those words will also be illegal.

Wouldn't surprise me if one day the word "evolving" (as used in Strat_a_tat_tat's post) would be made illegal as many Christians don't believe in evolution and could therefore possibly, find it offensive.

Like most things in life, language, offence and decency (and in this context socially acceptable behaviour) isn’t simple. 

Consider every single word? Nope. 

Consider some phrases and images when there’s plenty of contextual misuse of them to promote views which are socially unacceptable? Yep.

Dominic

Has anybody ever actually been 'thrown under a bus "?
and if they were has anybody to have suffered such misfortune survived said incident .............
Sort of rolled a bit and stayed between the track of the wheels so the bus actually goes over them without running them over a bit like people who have laid down and the tube train has skimmed over them?
I think being thrown under a hovercraft would have a more certain outcome........but then again it might just float over you...
interesting

Ricobanko

Whether he meant it or not it doesn’t take a genius to know that posting that kind of thing is asking for trouble.

Bridgehouse

Emp_Fab said:

Bridgehouse said:

 Sorry, no. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. 

What? So you’re saying that despite never having shown any signs of racism in his entire career, he chose to suddenly out himself by deliberately making as extreme a racist statement as possible (calling the new Royal baby a monkey), despite knowing it would certainly get him fired, then immediately deleted it and apologised?

You’re actually saying that are you?!

No.

As others have said, he may well have tried to be smart with his performing monkey picture quip, but given his background, and his knowledge of the context of racist primate references in football (his biggest passion) then it’s inconceivable that he couldn’t have considered that a picture of a chimp posted in the context of this particular baby might well have racist overtones. 

He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

richardhomer

Bridgehouse said:
He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

And that’s it in a nutshell. However much he claims it to have been intended in some other way - he’s far too media savvy to have not realised that the risk of ‘misinterpretation’ was so great that he shouldn’t post it. 

JezWynd

Bridgehouse said:

Emp_Fab said:

Bridgehouse said:

 Sorry, no. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. 

What? So you’re saying that despite never having shown any signs of racism in his entire career, he chose to suddenly out himself by deliberately making as extreme a racist statement as possible (calling the new Royal baby a monkey), despite knowing it would certainly get him fired, then immediately deleted it and apologised?

You’re actually saying that are you?!

No.

As others have said, he may well have tried to be smart with his performing monkey picture quip, but given his background, and his knowledge of the context of racist primate references in football (his biggest passion) then it’s inconceivable that he couldn’t have considered that a picture of a chimp posted in the context of this particular baby might well have racist overtones. 

He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

Actually, i’d say he’s proved pretty conclusively that he is stupid. “Stupid is as stupid does” as the saying goes.

Bridgehouse

JezWynd said:

Bridgehouse said:

Emp_Fab said:

Bridgehouse said:

 Sorry, no. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. 

What? So you’re saying that despite never having shown any signs of racism in his entire career, he chose to suddenly out himself by deliberately making as extreme a racist statement as possible (calling the new Royal baby a monkey), despite knowing it would certainly get him fired, then immediately deleted it and apologised?

You’re actually saying that are you?!

No.

As others have said, he may well have tried to be smart with his performing monkey picture quip, but given his background, and his knowledge of the context of racist primate references in football (his biggest passion) then it’s inconceivable that he couldn’t have considered that a picture of a chimp posted in the context of this particular baby might well have racist overtones. 

He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

Actually, i’d say he’s proved pretty conclusively that he is stupid. “Stupid is as stupid does” as the saying goes.

I’d believe that if he didn’t come across as a smug arrogant know it all.

PhilW1

richardhomer said:

Bridgehouse said:
He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

And that’s it in a nutshell. However much he claims it to have been intended in some other way - he’s far too media savvy to have not realised that the risk of ‘misinterpretation’ was so great that he shouldn’t post it. 

This^^
And if he meant it as some kind of statement about royal babies why didn’t he do it when Wills kids were born?

JezWynd

Bridgehouse said:

JezWynd said:

Bridgehouse said:

Emp_Fab said:

Bridgehouse said:

 Sorry, no. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. 

What? So you’re saying that despite never having shown any signs of racism in his entire career, he chose to suddenly out himself by deliberately making as extreme a racist statement as possible (calling the new Royal baby a monkey), despite knowing it would certainly get him fired, then immediately deleted it and apologised?

You’re actually saying that are you?!

No.

As others have said, he may well have tried to be smart with his performing monkey picture quip, but given his background, and his knowledge of the context of racist primate references in football (his biggest passion) then it’s inconceivable that he couldn’t have considered that a picture of a chimp posted in the context of this particular baby might well have racist overtones. 

He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

Actually, i’d say he’s proved pretty conclusively that he is stupid. “Stupid is as stupid does” as the saying goes.

I’d believe that if he didn’t come across as a smug arrogant know it all.

Exactly. How much more evidence do you need?

jdgm

Cols said:

He knew precisely what he was doing.  His paper-thin excuse that it was meant to poke fun of the baby being paraded like a circus animal is evidently the best he could come up with at short notice.  He was just too conceited to realise that, outside of the ‘nasty racist down the pub’ social circuit, that particular scabby form of wit stopped being acceptable some considerable time ago.

Comparing anyone’s baby to a chimpanzee is grossly offensive, regardless of parentage.  When the baby is mixed race it adds an extra edge to the nastiness.

Regarding “is this where we are as a nation?” - what do you think would’ve happened in days gone by if someone publically compared a Prince to a chimpanzee?  It wouldn’t have been their job they lost, I’ll tell you that.

I agree with this. He knew enough to know the implication. There is simply NO way that he did not.

IMO this is the new 'Trumpist' mentality - you can say anything, then deny you meant it and insist you were misunderstood.

Bridgehouse

JezWynd said:

Bridgehouse said:

JezWynd said:

Bridgehouse said:

Emp_Fab said:

Bridgehouse said:

 Sorry, no. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. 

What? So you’re saying that despite never having shown any signs of racism in his entire career, he chose to suddenly out himself by deliberately making as extreme a racist statement as possible (calling the new Royal baby a monkey), despite knowing it would certainly get him fired, then immediately deleted it and apologised?

You’re actually saying that are you?!

No.

As others have said, he may well have tried to be smart with his performing monkey picture quip, but given his background, and his knowledge of the context of racist primate references in football (his biggest passion) then it’s inconceivable that he couldn’t have considered that a picture of a chimp posted in the context of this particular baby might well have racist overtones. 

He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

Actually, i’d say he’s proved pretty conclusively that he is stupid. “Stupid is as stupid does” as the saying goes.

I’d believe that if he didn’t come across as a smug arrogant know it all.

Exactly. How much more evidence do you need?

You can be arrogant smug and think you know it all without being stupid.

He just thought he was being smarter than most with his underhand highbrow “joke” - he must have known it would have attracted attention as a potential racist slur

Heartfeltdawn

Emp_Fab said:

There are far too many people on here saying they agree with his dismissal for reasons not to do with the tweet such as personal dislike.  Jumping on the ‘burn him’ bandwagon because you don’t like him or his performance is a shitty thing to do.

It's quite delusional to think the mass of people on this forum think Baker's actions sucked arse because we don't like him as a person or that we find issues with his radio show. 

ICBM

Bridgehouse said:

He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

It’s just possible that he’s so full of himself and thought his ‘performing monkey’ reference was so clever that he genuinely overlooked the racist aspect.

But if so he should have immediately accepted how serious a misjudgement it was when it was pointed out and apologised unreservedly, which he hasn’t done.

WiresDreamDisasters

Hey @Phil_aka_Pip what's your opinion on this?

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Bridgehouse said:

He isn't stupid - there’s no way he posted that not knowing it could have been construed as racist. 

It’s just possible that he’s so full of himself and thought his ‘performing monkey’ reference was so clever that he genuinely overlooked the racist aspect.

But if so he should have immediately accepted how serious a misjudgement it was when it was pointed out and apologised unreservedly, which he hasn’t done.

Having listened to his Saturday morning show for the last eight years or so and, I think, getting to "know" him quite well, that would be my take on it.  

But then, as you say, he should have realised his error and simply apologised.  But he can't resist the temptation to be a smartarse, to get a sneaky kick in, to have the last word.  And it's cost him.