DIY - drilling and fixing into block work/brick work

hywelg

ThePrettyDamned said:

For the record, I'm definitely not doing anything too heavy duty - just need to get through plasterboard, insulation and either the studs or (as recommended by the builder) the blockwork behind.

I'm probably going to drill a small test hole somewhere safe and see exactly what's going on behind the plasterboard... 

So you could quite happily make do with an Encore strat copy and a 1x8 solid state combo then?

Pull the other one. 

My ethos has always been,  spend the money you would have paid a professional to do the job, on the tools to do it yourself. Then you'll have the tools to do it again and again. Eventually there'll be nothing you can't do. 

hywelg

TTony said:

  Completely unnecessary for putting up kitchen cupboard/shelves -

Right tool for the job.  Makes the job a lot easier.  

You say that but years ago I was asked to put up a blind for my mother in law. Kitchen window 1950's house required 4 holes in the lintel. Standard drill, burnt out 3 drill bits,  cos the concrete was made from quartz sand with pebbles in it. 

I soon bought an SDS drill after that incident. And it's been super usefull for all sorts of work since then including digging the footings for my workshop extension (last summer,  clay as hard as rock, SDS  set to hammer only with a 2" chisel.bit)

PolarityMan

If you cant fix shelves with this then you have no business being on a muso forum:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-Gaffa-Tape-50mm-Black/dp/B0001IWRYS

ThePrettyDamned

Update: did some further investigations and it's not a bloody stud wall. It's dot and dab.

This makes it easy - I just need the drill and Corefix fittings. Easy - but they're darn expensive! 

spark240

Now I am intrigued....Dot and dab and its still 500mm thick !

ThePrettyDamned

spark240 said:

Now I am intrigued....Dot and dab and its still 500mm thick !

Brick - insulation - block - plasterboard. 

It's a new build, so very eco

Edit: soundproofed too. Concrete floors and stairs. 

Deadman

Some good tips here, just to add my own experience I found the best thing for finding studs was a neodymium magnet. Just run it about the wall and BANG it'll find those screws with ease due to its very strong magnetism. You have to use a cylindrical one so you can actually get it off the wall again! An excellent thing to have in your toolbox and a great back up to a stud finder.

hywelg

ThePrettyDamned said:

spark240 said:

Now I am intrigued....Dot and dab and its still 500mm thick !

Brick - insulation - block - plasterboard. 

100mm + 50mm +100mm + 25mm ish. = 275mm

Unless there is more insulation inside the blockwork, but even that would only be 100mm or so. 

If it was me I'd be getting in touch with Building Control to get a copy the plans. 

ToneControl

+1 for buying a cheap argos or whatever SDS drill
Can also be used for demolishing unwanted walls and hardcore in chisel hammer mode

ToneControl

wThePrettyDamned said:

spark240 said:

Now I am intrigued....Dot and dab and its still 500mm thick !

Brick - insulation - block - plasterboard. 

It's a new build, so very eco

Edit: soundproofed too. Concrete floors and stairs. 

What is the internal block made of?
Is it concrete or lightweight insulating material?

Budgie

External Brick 100mm + Res. Cavity 50mm + PIR insulation sheet 100mm + 215mm thermal block + 25mm (of dot/dab, skimmed 12.5mm) plasterboard. Gets you pretty close to the target. Are the external walls rendered?

Seems a bit ott but who knows.

ThePrettyDamned

Didn't realise how controversial my flat would be!

I'll see if I can find out more... 

sev112

But you don’t need to go more than a little bit into the block, you don’t need to go through it.  The load bearing element is the block, and the brick is just waterproof cladding 

hywelg

sev112 said:

But you don’t need to go more than a little bit into the block, you don’t need to go through it.  The load bearing element is the block, and the brick is just waterproof cladding 

If its lightweight aerated concrete then you do need to go in a decent long way. They have low strength unlike the 7N concrete blocks.

Budgie

sev112 said:

But you don’t need to go more than a little bit into the block, you don’t need to go through it.  The load bearing element is the block, and the brick is just waterproof cladding 

I think everyone was just trying to work out the construction of a new build wall that is 500mm thick

ThePrettyDamned

Budgie said:

sev112 said:

But you don’t need to go more than a little bit into the block, you don’t need to go through it.  The load bearing element is the block, and the brick is just waterproof cladding 

I think everyone was just trying to work out the construction of a new build wall that is 500mm thick

It's bricks - insulation blockwork - drywall I think. 

Very insulated! 

Anyway, got a magnetic knife rack up no problems using Corefix fixings. Way overkill, but wanted to familiarise myself so I can put up some shelves. I've ordered some solid oak floating shelves that claim to support up to 35kg including the shelf weight. We won't need that, however, it is for fitting into masonry walls. 

My plan is to us the floating fixings, but fit them with the Corefix fixings. This should give me a strong shelf (it's 80cm long, so two fixings over that distance should be fine for most uses). Then, if I feel it's not enough, I can add further support with a decorative bracket underneath... 

Any DIY experts have thoughts on this?

randella

For lighter stuff in dot and dab you can save yourself a bit of money by using Fischer plugs instead of Corefix - half of my house is D&D and these things are genius for light to medium stuff.  I use the 8x40mm ones, they're slightly more expensive than your normal red Rawlplug but they're the only ones I've found that bite behind the plasterboard if you don't manage to find a dab to drill into.

The spring toggle jobs are useless in dot and dab as there's no room for them to expand between the plasterboard and blockwork.

https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-duopower-nylon-high-performance-plug/p47504

ThePrettyDamned

randella said:

For lighter stuff in dot and dab you can save yourself a bit of money by using Fischer plugs instead of Corefix - half of my house is D&D and these things are genius for light to medium stuff.  I use the 8x40mm ones, they're slightly more expensive than your normal red Rawlplug but they're the only ones I've found that bite behind the plasterboard if you don't manage to find a dab to drill into.

The spring toggle jobs are useless in dot and dab as there's no room for them to expand between the plasterboard and blockwork.

https://www.toolstation.com/fischer-duopower-nylon-high-performance-plug/p47504

Yeah, I plan on using these for decorative stuff like pictures (but may just use command strips instead tbh). The core fix is strictly for the heavy shelves. 

I may try a lean-to ladder shelf somewhere in the living room, which would also be a Corefix job. 

randella

One tip for those Fischer plugs I found: they need something flush with them to get them to work properly.  So they're good for screwing, say, a batten, but not so good if there's any gap between whatever it is and the wall.

If you're screwing something flush to the wall, great - they'll do what they're designed to do and crumple up behind the plasterboard.  If there's a gap then they just pull straight out again and mild temper tantrum ensues.  Ask me how I know this

On the other hand I just used them to screw a batten to the wall to support a folding desk I made - a bunch of those plugs and some grab adhesive and you wouldn't believe how strong the batten is.  I wish I'd found them sooner, I must have gone through half a dozen other types of fixing before finding anything at all that would work in dot and dab.

ThePrettyDamned

randella said:

One tip for those Fischer plugs I found: they need something flush with them to get them to work properly.  So they're good for screwing, say, a batten, but not so good if there's any gap between whatever it is and the wall.

If you're screwing something flush to the wall, great - they'll do what they're designed to do and crumple up behind the plasterboard.  If there's a gap then they just pull straight out again and mild temper tantrum ensues.  Ask me how I know this

On the other hand I just used them to screw a batten to the wall to support a folding desk I made - a bunch of those plugs and some grab adhesive and you wouldn't believe how strong the batten is.  I wish I'd found them sooner, I must have gone through half a dozen other types of fixing before finding anything at all that would work in dot and dab.

I'm using Corefix, so I'll go straight to the blockwork behind for strength, and the gap is bridged by a steel core so tightening up won't cause the wall to crumple in. 

However, I am not liking the floating brackets - they're a bit flimsy. I also like the old school look of steel or iron work holding up shelves (not sure it's fashionable these days though!). Anyone able to recommend strong, good looking brackets that'll support a decent weight? Each shelf weighs about 5.5kg by itself and is 225mm deep, which is pretty standard. I've seen some pretty cool ones but by god are they expensive!