Bloody Les Pauls

Philly_Q

thegummy said:

To me, if you're going to change a part of the LP significantly, like take away half the body thickness, then it won't sound like a LP so why bother keeping some parts the same if they're not beneficial?

If not going specifically for a LP then just change everything like Ibanez, Jackson etc. 

It makes sense to me.  You end up with something which looks exactly like an LP - and I like the look of LPs - but doesn't have some of the disadvantages.

It may sound a bit less like an LP and a bit more like a generic "double-humbucker guitar", maybe an SG, V or Explorer.  But I like the way those guitars sound too, so I'm happy.

(@timmypix thanks for the reminder about the "Less Plus".  I never would've remembered that.)

TTBZ

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

darthed1981 said:

merciful-evans said:

This one ticks some of those want boxes. This one isn't mine. Mine is has HBs.

Christ, that headstock angle, it's like it's screaming "break me"...

That's a normal angle for a LP isn't it?

Indeed it is, it's only with photos like this it's so obvious, and such an obvious design flaw though!

As the thread is about problems with LPs I find it ironic that this example is thinner to address the weight and seems to have a reshaped join for better upper fret access, but still keeps the daft neck angle.

The bizarre thing is that they've fixed the headstock angle for Epiphone Les Pauls, so they acknowledge it's an issue. I suppose customers would kick off if their Gibson wasn't vintage correct, but for models like the Modern where they've sorted out the neck heel, why not fix the headstock whilst you're at it..

Revolting1

Been trying to buy a good Gibson LP or SG at less than daft money for 6 months-

  most of them have had dead notes -ones that decay really fast unless applying WTHM amounts of gain.

  Its  not due to fret buzz or strings so I'm assuming some awfull grade timber?

  

     Its driving me up the pole 

  .   

  Though it has lead to me getting a Gretsch with lovely tone and none of the issues above.  

thegummy

Philly_Q said:

thegummy said:

To me, if you're going to change a part of the LP significantly, like take away half the body thickness, then it won't sound like a LP so why bother keeping some parts the same if they're not beneficial?

If not going specifically for a LP then just change everything like Ibanez, Jackson etc. 

It makes sense to me.  You end up with something which looks exactly like an LP - and I like the look of LPs - but doesn't have some of the disadvantages.

It may sound a bit less like an LP and a bit more like a generic "double-humbucker guitar", maybe an SG, V or Explorer.  But I like the way those guitars sound too, so I'm happy.

(@timmypix thanks for the reminder about the "Less Plus".  I never would've remembered that.)

Good point, I hadn't even considered that angle.

Possibly because I don't personally like the look of LPs, I have one purely for the sound.

thegummy

TTBZ said:

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

darthed1981 said:

merciful-evans said:

This one ticks some of those want boxes. This one isn't mine. Mine is has HBs.

Christ, that headstock angle, it's like it's screaming "break me"...

That's a normal angle for a LP isn't it?

Indeed it is, it's only with photos like this it's so obvious, and such an obvious design flaw though!

As the thread is about problems with LPs I find it ironic that this example is thinner to address the weight and seems to have a reshaped join for better upper fret access, but still keeps the daft neck angle.

The bizarre thing is that they've fixed the headstock angle for Epiphone Les Pauls, so they acknowledge it's an issue. I suppose customers would kick off if their Gibson wasn't vintage correct, but for models like the Modern where they've sorted out the neck heel, why not fix the headstock whilst you're at it..

That's assuming it's just a problem to be fixed and doesn't offer any benefit.

darthed1981

thegummy said:

TTBZ said:

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

darthed1981 said:

merciful-evans said:

This one ticks some of those want boxes. This one isn't mine. Mine is has HBs.

Christ, that headstock angle, it's like it's screaming "break me"...

That's a normal angle for a LP isn't it?

Indeed it is, it's only with photos like this it's so obvious, and such an obvious design flaw though!

As the thread is about problems with LPs I find it ironic that this example is thinner to address the weight and seems to have a reshaped join for better upper fret access, but still keeps the daft neck angle.

The bizarre thing is that they've fixed the headstock angle for Epiphone Les Pauls, so they acknowledge it's an issue. I suppose customers would kick off if their Gibson wasn't vintage correct, but for models like the Modern where they've sorted out the neck heel, why not fix the headstock whilst you're at it..

That's assuming it's just a problem to be fixed and doesn't offer any benefit.

Well, it assumes that any perceived benefit does not outweigh the negatives.

As we have indentified, there are many not necessarily all that tangible or measurable benefits people consider the "authentic" Gibson LP has throughout the range where individual mileage varies considerably.

It's also quite possible to really like LPs while acknowledging their many flaws of course.

thegummy

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

TTBZ said:

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

darthed1981 said:

merciful-evans said:

This one ticks some of those want boxes. This one isn't mine. Mine is has HBs.

Christ, that headstock angle, it's like it's screaming "break me"...

That's a normal angle for a LP isn't it?

Indeed it is, it's only with photos like this it's so obvious, and such an obvious design flaw though!

As the thread is about problems with LPs I find it ironic that this example is thinner to address the weight and seems to have a reshaped join for better upper fret access, but still keeps the daft neck angle.

The bizarre thing is that they've fixed the headstock angle for Epiphone Les Pauls, so they acknowledge it's an issue. I suppose customers would kick off if their Gibson wasn't vintage correct, but for models like the Modern where they've sorted out the neck heel, why not fix the headstock whilst you're at it..

That's assuming it's just a problem to be fixed and doesn't offer any benefit.

Well, it assumes that any perceived benefit does not outweigh the negatives.

As we have indentified, there are many not necessarily all that tangible or measurable benefits people consider the "authentic" Gibson LP has throughout the range where individual mileage varies considerably.

It's also quite possible to really like LPs while acknowledging their many flaws of course.

It's interesting that Gibson wouldn't change a fragile headstock angle for fear it would affect the sound of the guitar but most of the soft drink industry thought they could replace the main ingredient - sugar, which everyone loves - with vile chemicals and no one would notice.

FelineGuitars

The angle of the headstock can affect tone a bit and the perceived tension of the strings a bit (in the same way that top wrapped tailpieces vs normal ones do)

IMO it is a good idea to make the neck stronger by utilising a 3 piece construction, so you don't get a single grain line going right across the thinnest or weakest point or orientating the grain direction so it won't easily splinter along a grain line if struck.

I think a volute helps if it's in the right place to add wood back that is lost to the truss rod adjuster pocket.

Then again carbon fibre inserts could help too if you were so inclined. 

We did this with the Gibson LP Custom rebuild for Judas Priest

Philly_Q

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

There was one of those Les Paul Custom 'Lite' models from a few years back going for a bargain price on Gumtree near me a little while back. Looked exactly like a 'proper' black Custom when viewed at the right angle and I was quite tempted. Then I remembered I've never got on with single-cut guitars, and a thinner body doesn't really solve that problem.

I had one of those for a while.

Pros:  Looked good, sounded pretty good, reasonable weight, well balanced, good upper fret access, didn't feel at all cumbersome.

Cons:  Coil split switch in place of one of the tone controls (easily changed), neck too thin, rosewood board (does NOT look right on a Custom!), steep neck angle so the bridge and tailpiece were really high (doesn't bother some people but it annoys me).

But if you simply don't get on with singlecuts there's no way round that problem.

vonLayzonfon

I'm another that dearly wants to like LPs but has never really got on with them.  They just don't sit right with me, they feel bulky and the strings feel too far above the body.  I even went to the trouble of building a guitar that was Les Paul shaped but was based on an Ibanez S-Series in profile and had zero neck angle and a Floyd (because why not?).  Still didn't like it.

Then just before Christmas our bass player brought an Epiphone LP Custom PRO that he'd bought for his Mrs in to practice.  As our other guitarist was a left-hooker I got to road test it and I have to say, against all expectations, I really liked it.

So for the past six months I've been jonesing for an LP again, despite having too many guitars already and suspecting that it'll end up being a disappointment.  I've stayed strong so far but I'm sure it's only a matter of time, dammit.

Maybe I should just get one of those £120 Harley Bentons.  If I like it I can always upgrade it.  Does anyone know if that'll make it as good as a proper Gibson? 

darthed1981

vonLayzonfon said:

Maybe I should just get one of those £120 Harley Bentons.  If I like it I can always upgrade it.  Does anyone know if that'll make it as good as a proper Gibson? 

I think the 10,000 page thread has probably done that one to death

underdog

sweepy said:

As above, why do we do it ? lost count of the Les Pauls I’ve had over the past 40 years and yet I still gravitate towards Strats and single coils, my Ryder LP is bloody lovely but I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve picked it up in the last 3 months .
Is it afair assumption that most of us find one design that just “fits”
https://i.imgur.com/3fkkB8N.jpg

Go on, how much you want for it

Danielsguitars

FelineGuitars said:

The angle of the headstock can affect tone a bit and the perceived tension of the strings a bit (in the same way that top wrapped tailpieces vs normal ones do)

IMO it is a good idea to make the neck stronger by utilising a 3 piece construction, so you don't get a single grain line going right across the thinnest or weakest point or orientating the grain direction so it won't easily splinter along a grain line if struck.

I think a volute helps if it's in the right place to add wood back that is lost to the truss rod adjuster pocket.

Then again carbon fibre inserts could help too if you were so inclined. 

We did this with the Gibson LP Custom rebuild for Judas Priest

Those carbon strips are what I've been thinking about lately even if reducing a neck angle to say 12 or 14 degrees, be interesting to compare a normal neck with one like yours

Do you think it changed the tone much

Danielsguitars

There's just something so nice about a faded and aged burst, nothing else comes close imo, you have to have at least 1 or 2 les pauls, p90's and a bigsby plus pafs

Keefy

Only one of my 8 electric guitars is a Les Paul. It doesn't get as much use as my single-coil-equipped guitars (6 of 'em) but there are times when nothing else will do. My only other HB-powered guitar is a Tele Deluxe, and that is completely different from the LP, despite the apparent similarities.

TTBZ

thegummy said:

When threads like this come up it makes me think how much better feeling the Strat is and wonder if I should get an HH Strat as my joint number 1 instead of a LP.

Can never decide if the sound will still be as good as I want it.

I often think about doing that, a workhorse HH strat with good splittable humbuckers really appeals to me. I don't care for strat singlecoils other than the neck one. Don't know what's wrong with me recently - I've always played Gibsons but absolutely loved the feel of the tele and even the strat I played the other day. Think my perception of Fender had been skewed by the dodgy old parts strat I have lying around.

MagicBus

Love mine, been smitten with them for over thirty years

thegummy

TTBZ said:

thegummy said:

When threads like this come up it makes me think how much better feeling the Strat is and wonder if I should get an HH Strat as my joint number 1 instead of a LP.

Can never decide if the sound will still be as good as I want it.

I often think about doing that, a workhorse HH strat with good splittable humbuckers really appeals to me. I don't care for strat singlecoils other than the neck one. Don't know what's wrong with me recently - I've always played Gibsons but absolutely loved the feel of the tele and even the strat I played the other day. Think my perception of Fender had been skewed by the dodgy old parts strat I have lying around.

It seems to be very common for people to only like the neck pickup on a Strat and only the bridge pickup on a Les Paul, hence the HSS option being seen as a "best of both worlds" thing.

For me, the neck is my favourite on a Strat but I love the in between positions and always found the middle to be nice as well, though possibly a bit too "in the middle" if that makes any sense. Hadn't previously loved the bridge pickup on a Strat but never understood the hate for them. Then I got a hot bridge pickup and absolutely love every position on the Strat now.

And on a Les Paul I really love the neck tone; to me the neck humbucker on a LP is up there with the finest guitar tones available so the whole "best of both worlds" has never done it for me.

Can't say I'm a fan of split humbuckers at all though, never heard one that sounded anything like a good single coil.

p90fool

TTBZ said:

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

darthed1981 said:

merciful-evans said:

This one ticks some of those want boxes. This one isn't mine. Mine is has HBs.

Christ, that headstock angle, it's like it's screaming "break me"...

That's a normal angle for a LP isn't it?

Indeed it is, it's only with photos like this it's so obvious, and such an obvious design flaw though!

As the thread is about problems with LPs I find it ironic that this example is thinner to address the weight and seems to have a reshaped join for better upper fret access, but still keeps the daft neck angle.

The bizarre thing is that they've fixed the headstock angle for Epiphone Les Pauls, so they acknowledge it's an issue. I suppose customers would kick off if their Gibson wasn't vintage correct, but for models like the Modern where they've sorted out the neck heel, why not fix the headstock whilst you're at it..

Gibson did make the headstock angle shallower in the 70s but the purists complained so they had to change it back. 

Epiphone didn't "fix" it, they just made it that way because it's cheaper to manufacture and for bulk storage, and they don't have to worry about purists when it comes to LPs and SGs. 

Three-ColourSunburst

Revolting1 said:

Been trying to buy a good Gibson LP or SG at less than daft money for 6 months-

  most of them have had dead notes -ones that decay really fast unless applying WTHM amounts of gain.

  Its  not due to fret buzz or strings so I'm assuming some awfull grade timber?

  

     Its driving me up the pole 

  .   

  Though it has lead to me getting a Gretsch with lovely tone and none of the issues above.  

That would be the reality of 'resonance' - something that many guitarists mistakenly think of as being the mark of a good instrument. I talked about this on another thread...

Any energy that makes the body vibrate is coming from the strings and so is just reducing the instruments sustain. In reality the whole design of an electric guitar is based around minimising such energy transference, hence the rigid, solid body, the heavy metal bridge and so on. (In contrast, with an acoustic instrument, such a violin, where the transfer of energy from the string to the body is central to how it makes a sound, the body will be hollow and the top as thin as possible, with a bridge weighing just a couple of grams so as to minimise its impedance.) 

Also, for the most part an electric guitar body and neck undergoes forced vibration, not resonance, and - just as with classic instruments where resonance is generally a bad thing, creating 'wolf' notes, uneven response and so on - resonance in an electric guitar is generally a bad thing, typically resulting in 'dead spots' where the note just dies away. Such resonant frequencies in the electric guitar almost always relate to how the neck behaves, which is a thin, rather flexible stick compared to the slab of the body. (This is also why guitar shaped synth controllers - such as the Roland G707 - often have an extension of the body running to the head stock, as dead spots will adversely affect the triggering of certain notes.)

I do accept that there is a psychological factor at play, as many players like the feel of the body being forced to vibrate, and this is probably linked in the player's head to the fact that in acoustic instruments it is the forced vibration of the body that produces the sound one hears. However, if you have an electric guitar that truly does 'resonate' at certain frequencies, then it is likely that it will behave much like the one in the video below. This Gibson Custom 59 reissue clearly has a neck resonance right around 247 Hz, affecting the 'B3' note at the 4th fret. As a result the fundamental just won't sustain, and as the player keeps on adding energy to the string via vibrato, the first harmonic becomes dominant.