Valuation on a 1985 Fender Esquire 62 Re-issue, Candy Apple Red, Double Bound:

robgilmo

Modellista said:

igotgas said:

Modellista said:

Nice guitar.  While there's quite a few Telecaster versions from that era kicking about (I have a sunburst '85 and it's great), I've never seen the Esquire version.  Certainly rarer for sure, but it looks like the only difference being the "Esquire" decal on the headstock. 

Value-wise, £600 seems to be the quoted value for MIJ Teles in general (the Andertons one was a later model with a different bridge - possibly Crafted In Japan era), although I'm waiting patiently for values to rise for these early models - have you seen the asking prices on JV Squires these days?  These are AFAIK the same factory and build quality.  No idea how much the Esquire name adds in terms of value.  A collector probably wouldn't be chuffed with the absence of the original pickup and wiring.  The wiring was indeed cheap plastic-covered stuff but the original bridge pickups are pretty good.

Case-wise mine came with the Fender moulded case as a few above, so maybe there was some deal with them coming with this case back in the day.

I would recommend checking the pencil date on the neck heel - according to this page an A serial on the bridge doesn't guarantee a 1985 date as the bridges were from a parts bin and used randomly.  Mine is A016xxx so not too far away from your A020xxx.

Anyway, a fine-looking guitar which really should be returned to Esquire spec for it to fulfil its potential.

Hi, 
Yes, the price point on the Tele’s seems to differ for some reason I would say though. 

I may well return it to original spec. I’m a little hesitant to remove the neck unless it’s specifically required so the exact date shall remain a mystery for the time being. That said, I may be tempted to take a peek on the next string change. 

Sorry to be a pain, do you think you’d mind editing your post to remove the full serial number please?
i know it’s visible elsewhere right now but once those pictures become offline it would be good not to broadcast the whole thing if that’s okay?

On the case front, these were dealer specific promotions. The Mid-80’s Esquires were not offered with cases back then. 

I’ll definitely be hanging on to this guitar for a while as, asides from it being a stunning guitar, it was recently played at a special gig by one of my favourite guitarists. 

I'd be checking the neck ASAP, you've paid for an early one, if it turns out not to be 1985 you'll be a bit gutted, so I'd do it pronto and raise it with the seller if it turns out not to be '85.  It's only four wood screws and you can easily refit the same strings what with it having the hole-type vintage tuners.

The chap on TDPRI that Rob linked to above was asking if anyone could beat 19th April 1985 as a neck date - there's a chance yours could!  I might have another look at mine as well, I can't find the pics I took of it now.

I've edited my original post to remove the serial number, you'll need to edit your quote of it as well!

Go on, spill the beans, who played it?  As we know from Essex Recording Studios, a vaguely famous guitarist once having played a couple of licks on a guitar instantly doubles its value!

85/86 , I wouldnt worry too much, from what I can gather they are all pretty much the same from that era, I wouldnt get too caught up on a few months seperating production dates.

robgilmo

Modellista said:

robgilmo said:

igotgas said:

robgilmo said:

What series is it? Prefix letter on the serial, the serial should be on the bridge plate and not on the neck, they are very desirable , well , the Teles are, from that period with the serial on the bridge. MIJ from 85 ish are said to be the dogs doodlies.


I have seen one of these on eBay for a while now,  why it hasn't sold is beyond me, if I had the money I would snap it up.

It’s xxxxxx. I would agree that they are great guitars. Certainly stands up well against my 62 custom shop telecaster.

I almost bought one a few years back, got outbid on it, I was dubious as to its originality because I knew nothing about them at the time, when I got clued up could I find another at that price? No, of course not!  One day though..
https://www.tdpri.com/threads/japanese-tele-no-serial-number.645879/

Wow, from that thread one went for £350 plus fees?  £434 or thereabouts.  Nice!

I was outbid by 7 quid, I still feel the pain!

Modellista

ICBM said:

Modellista said:

I'd be checking the neck ASAP, you've paid for an early one, if it turns out not to be 1985 you'll be a bit gutted, so I'd do it pronto and raise it with the seller if it turns out not to be '85.

 It makes no difference to its value as a guitar.

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, maybe it will do in the future.  People probably said the same about Les Pauls back in the day.  Not that this is of the same value, but the principle is similar, they have their own historic value because the USA weren't producing guitars at the time, and said value will only increase with time, like it or not.

Every one of these you see advertised for sale is listed as an "85".  They can't all be.  If I'd paid for something listed with a certain year, I'd want to know that's what I'd bought.  YMMV.

ICBM

Modellista said:

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, maybe it will do in the future.  People probably said the same about Les Pauls back in the day.  Not that this is of the same value, but the principle is similar, they have their own historic value because the USA weren't producing guitars at the time, and said value will only increase with time, like it or not.

No it doesn't.

There's absolutely no difference between one made on the last working day of 1985 and one made on the first working day of 1986, if the spec is the same.

There's no inherent difference between a '58 sunburst Les Paul and a '59 either. The value is determined by other factors.

Modellista

ICBM said:

Modellista said:

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, maybe it will do in the future.  People probably said the same about Les Pauls back in the day.  Not that this is of the same value, but the principle is similar, they have their own historic value because the USA weren't producing guitars at the time, and said value will only increase with time, like it or not.

There's absolutely no difference between one made on the last working day of 1985 and one made on the first working day of 1986, if the spec is the same.

Incorrect.  The difference between a '85 and an '86 is that one says '85 on it and one says '86 on it.  Or '89, or '91, or whatever.

The question then is, is 1985 a more desirable year of manufacture?  Since '85 was the iconic year when everything was in flux with Fender in the US, the year that everyone refers to when talking about these instruments, the fact that these are almost always claimed to be '85s even though not everyone bothers to check the neck date, given the choice between a guaranteed '85, or one that simply has an A serial but could be made in the '90s, and following the general principle with guitars (as with most other collectable items) the older the better, the '85 is the more desirable and therefore more valuable.

Modellista

I suspect we'll find out soon enough if the year of manufacture makes a difference to perceived value.  The Tele in question belonging to @igotgas has allen key saddle height adjusters which, according to Planet Botch, were introduced in '88-'89.

ICBM

Modellista said:

Incorrect.  The difference between a '85 and an '86 is that one says '85 on it and one says '86 on it.  Or '89, or '91, or whatever.

The question then is, is 1985 a more desirable year of manufacture?  Since '85 was the iconic year when everything was in flux with Fender in the US, the year that everyone refers to when talking about these instruments, the fact that these are almost always claimed to be '85s even though not everyone bothers to check the neck date, given the choice between a guaranteed '85, or one that simply has an A serial but could be made in the '90s, and following the general principle with guitars (as with most other collectable items) the older the better, the '85 is the more desirable and therefore more valuable.

No, it's purely the idiocy that older is always better.

Most people couldn't even tell you the date Fender's management bought the company from CBS. Clue... it was *not* the 31st of December 1985. No other production changes happened on the 1st of January 1986 either. So there is no difference, either in the guitar, or the ownership of the company at the time, or its value as a musical instrument, between an '85 and an '86.

It's complete bullshit, but every buyer seems to want to know "the year" as if it makes any difference.

I'll admit this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine...

Modellista said:

I suspect we'll find out soon enough if the year of manufacture makes a difference to perceived value.  The Tele in question belonging to @igotgas has allen key saddle height adjusters which, according to Planet Botch, were introduced in '88-'89.

Or equally likely they've been changed.

Who cares? Change them for whichever type you prefer. It's not all-original anyway with the Tele electrics.

It's nothing more or less than a very nice example of a fairly rare Japanese guitar, it's not the Mona Lisa.

Modellista

ICBM said:

It's nothing more or less than a very nice example of a fairly rare Japanese guitar, it's not the Mona Lisa.

Oh, I agree with that, but what else are we going to talk about on a Sunday evening?  Not the weather, that's for sure.

terada

If the desireability meant I could sell an 85 for more than that of an 86 then it would matter to me for that reason only. 

It is of course all bullshit in reality. 

Eartrumpet

I find values are hard to assertain in many cases, in the end an item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it i guess.

For example

The OP has a "rare" Esquire valued in the 500 - 600 quid range by some of the above posts. .

Then you find the more "common" Telecaster version at 1500 - 2000 quid range on flea spray.

Admittedly these have not sold yet

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1985-MIJ-Fender-Telecaster-62-Re-Issue-Candy-Apple-Red/233304507116?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Fender-Telecaster-Vintage-MIJ-RI-62-Early-80s-Tele-Guitar/283272661991?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Modellista

^ The description on the second one there has more alarm bells ringing than a break-in at Fort Knox.  Not the instrument, but the seller.

Eartrumpet

Modellista said:

^ The description on the second one there has more alarm bells ringing than a break-in at Fort Knox.  Not the instrument, but the seller.

Agreed

robgilmo

Its ''early 80's'' however its ''approx. 35 years old'' and he cannot guarantee its authentic? Just shy of 1700 quid? I guess I must be one of the ''many naive " know it all " young guitarists who are not interested whatsoever in my guitar to buy, but will waste their time and mine on attempting to educate me on values ( as their opinion and limited understandings, based on flawed idiotic conclusions ).''  flawed idiotic conclusions, he got that bit right, his listing is full of them.

igotgas

I’ll pop the neck on mine later this afternoon...

Modellista

robgilmo said:

Its ''early 80's'' however its ''approx. 35 years old'' and he cannot guarantee its authentic? Just shy of 1700 quid? I guess I must be one of the ''many naive " know it all " young guitarists who are not interested whatsoever in my guitar to buy, but will waste their time and mine on attempting to educate me on values ( as their opinion and limited understandings, based on flawed idiotic conclusions ).''  flawed idiotic conclusions, he got that bit right, his listing is full of them.

Reminds me of a chap who’s been discussed on here before who was selling some old Vox amp for a huge price and wouldn’t even say what it actually was in the advert. Something along the lines of, “I only want to sell to those who are worthy and can recognise its value”.  

There’s some rum characters out there. 

igotgas

Everything seems to check out.  Even if the pencil mark is a little hard to read.  Marks are consistent with what i'd expect. 
Looks to be dated 25th either November or December, 85 (hard to read the month but i'm going to go with December as the way it's written is consistent with the first 2 plus that makes me smile ).

robgilmo

Modellista said:

robgilmo said:

Its ''early 80's'' however its ''approx. 35 years old'' and he cannot guarantee its authentic? Just shy of 1700 quid? I guess I must be one of the ''many naive " know it all " young guitarists who are not interested whatsoever in my guitar to buy, but will waste their time and mine on attempting to educate me on values ( as their opinion and limited understandings, based on flawed idiotic conclusions ).''  flawed idiotic conclusions, he got that bit right, his listing is full of them.

Reminds me of a chap who’s been discussed on here before who was selling some old Vox amp for a huge price and wouldn’t even say what it actually was in the advert. Something along the lines of, “I only want to sell to those who are worthy and can recognise its value”.  

There’s some rum characters out there. 

I remember him well, I ended up chatting to him and he came across as a tad excentric but not a bad bloke at all, juat not very good at selling stuff.

igotgas

Incidentally, I looked at the planet botch web site. It stated that in one of the photos (of a MIJ 62 RI Telecaster), someone has changed the height adjustment screws over in the bridge saddles over from flat heads to hex screws (as seen in mine) screws. I'd challenge this, at least for Esquires. Every Mid 80's one I've seen pictures of have had the threaded rod saddles and hex head screws, which I don't believe is accurate to a 62 telecaster. 

John_P

Yes that bridge has been changed.   

igotgas

John_P said:

Yes that bridge has been changed.   

Which bridge?