Is Mayer overrated?

soma1975

Barnezy said:

It's not that I don't agree Mayer is a great player l just dont believe he deserves the status people like Clapton, BB King, Page, Gilmour, SRV get, as in my opinion he's not an innovator. 

I don't think anyone puts him in the BB/Clapton/Gilmour category. 

His 'innovation' was to bring the guitar back to the forefront of modern popular music at a time when nobody else was doing it. And on top of that he's clearly rather good at it. 

robinbowes

Barnezy said:

I got really in to Mayer about a year ago. He does some good pop songs but the more I listened to him the more I realised he was just ripping off others. Jimmy Hendrix, SRV mostly, I've even heard Pearl Jam in one of his songs.

My point is, can you really be a great if you haven't bought anything new?

John Mayer is a great guitar player. Yes, he can do the Hendrix/SRV thing, but he also has a superb and very distinctive acoustic technique.

However, for me it's more about his songwriting. He's written several albums of great songs.

I love this acoustic version of one of his recent songs. Very simple, but tells a story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKgoF64zVRk

I really like him.

R.

OilCityPickups

soma1975 said:

He's wet as a guppy but is a genuine proper musician and great guitarist. 

I laughed a lot at 'wet as a guppy' ....

Sassafras

It's very simple.
If you like him he's underrated.
If you don't like him he's overrated.
Can't believe we've got to 3 pages with this nonsensical thread.

Sassafras

There are so many people more deserving of the "overrated" label. Justin Bieber, Donald Trump, Piers Morgan, to name just a few.

Modulus_Amps

@Sassafras said:

It's very simple.
If you like him he's underrated.
If you don't like him he's overrated.
Can't believe we've got to 3 pages with this nonsensical thread.

Actually I think he is sufficiently rated

EricTheWeary

As with all similar Discussions I have yet to understand where this rating system is kept.  

thegummy

EricTheWeary said:

As with all similar Discussions I have yet to understand where this rating system is kept.  

Some people really seem to struggle with the concept of subjectivity and are convinced there just has to be some objective measure where they can be right and others wrong.

But there's no logic to back that idea up. The only measure of how good music is if how much someone likes it.

If someone enjoys Ed Sheeran's guitar playing more than anyone else's, that opinion is equal to anyone else's and no amount of "facts" can be quoted that changes that.

Of course it's unlikely anyone would feel that about Sheeran's playing but I bet there are a lot of people in the world who enjoy Nile Rodgers' playing more than any of the blues rock guitar heroes.

thegummy

Lewy said:

Barnezy said:

It's not that I don't agree Mayer is a great player l just dont believe he deserves the status people like Clapton, BB King, Page, Gilmour, SRV get, as in my opinion he's not an innovator. He plays nice pop songs well that teenage girls like and guitar heads appreciate and feel familiar with. 

But where are the people that are bestowing that status on him? Most of the audiences who pack out stadiums to see him and buy his records aren't in the slightest bit interested in comparison to other guitar heroes, and those that are all seem to say exactly the same thing...great songs, great player, synthesises the styles of others to support his music etc etc. No worship as any sort of guitar innovator.

The whole premise of him being overrated seems to have a whiff of the straw man about it to me.

I do actually put Mayer on that level and I'm a big fan of most of the names mentioned.

I also know about the history of music so the people will have to come up with a new excuse that their opinion is more valid than mine lol.

EricTheWeary

thegummy said:

EricTheWeary said:

As with all similar Discussions I have yet to understand where this rating system is kept.  

Some people really seem to struggle with the concept of subjectivity and are convinced there just has to be some objective measure where they can be right and others wrong.

But there's no logic to back that idea up. The only measure of how good music is if how much someone likes it.

If someone enjoys Ed Sheeran's guitar playing more than anyone else's, that opinion is equal to anyone else's and no amount of "facts" can be quoted that changes that.

Of course it's unlikely anyone would feel that about Sheeran's playing but I bet there are a lot of people in the world who enjoy Nile Rodgers' playing more than any of the blues rock guitar heroes.

My son's girlfriend is a huge Ed Sheeran fan ( my son looks a bit like Ed Sheeran so I have my suspicions that's why she puts up with him) so I'd assume she'd prefer his guitar playing to anyone else's.

But, yes, it's hugely subjective. There are semi objective judgements to be made about the technical ability of one guitarist over another but that says nothing about their artistic vision which as a listener is what I engage with. 

Barnezy

thegummy said:

EricTheWeary said:

As with all similar Discussions I have yet to understand where this rating system is kept.  

Some people really seem to struggle with the concept of subjectivity and are convinced there just has to be some objective measure where they can be right and others wrong.

But there's no logic to back that idea up. The only measure of how good music is if how much someone likes it.

If someone enjoys Ed Sheeran's guitar playing more than anyone else's, that opinion is equal to anyone else's and no amount of "facts" can be quoted that changes that.

Of course it's unlikely anyone would feel that about Sheeran's playing but I bet there are a lot of people in the world who enjoy Nile Rodgers' playing more than any of the blues rock guitar heroes.

No one is aguring whether subjectivness is a real thing. However ignorance is a factor in subjectivity. If someone, like my sister for example, thinks Ed Sheeran is the best guitarist ever, of course she cannot be wrong in the context of her understanding of the subject. However she is still wrong when you remove her limited knowledge from the equation.

The closest we can get to a non-subjective view is the view of experts who understand the topic at a very deep level. In this case those people might be the people who contributed to this as the list of contributors is quite distinguished https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-guitarists-153675/ . In this example, where Mayer doesn't list, some might argue he's being underrated, but is it not fair to conclude that those who argue this, against experts who are less subjective, are actually overeating him based on their own ignorance of the subject? 

As for where does this overeating exist just search Google, there are people who literally believe he is the best player ever! Then you get the overhype from people like Andertons TV etc, who to be fair are probably just trying to hype him to flog a few more Silver Skys. 

As I said I like him. I'm going to see him in October. I just dont class him as a great, but that is my subjective, ignorant view.

thegummy

Barnezy said:

thegummy said:

EricTheWeary said:

As with all similar Discussions I have yet to understand where this rating system is kept.  

Some people really seem to struggle with the concept of subjectivity and are convinced there just has to be some objective measure where they can be right and others wrong.

But there's no logic to back that idea up. The only measure of how good music is if how much someone likes it.

If someone enjoys Ed Sheeran's guitar playing more than anyone else's, that opinion is equal to anyone else's and no amount of "facts" can be quoted that changes that.

Of course it's unlikely anyone would feel that about Sheeran's playing but I bet there are a lot of people in the world who enjoy Nile Rodgers' playing more than any of the blues rock guitar heroes.

No one is aguring whether subjectivness is a real thing. However ignorance is a factor in subjectivity. If someone, like my sister for example, thinks Ed Sheeran is the best guitarist ever, of course she cannot be wrong in the context of her understanding of the subject. However she is still wrong when you remove her limited knowledge from the equation.

The closest we can get to a non-subjective view is the view of experts who understand the topic at a very deep level. In this case those people might be the people who contributed to this as the list of contributors is quite distinguished https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-guitarists-153675/ . In this example, where Mayer doesn't list, some might argue he's being underrated, but is it not fair to conclude that those who argue this, against experts who are less subjective, are actually overeating him based on their own ignorance of the subject? 

As for where does this overeating exist just search Google, there are people who literally believe he is the best player ever! Then you get the overhype from people like Andertons TV etc, who to be fair are probably just trying to hype him to flog a few more Silver Skys. 

As I said I like him. I'm going to see him in October. I just dont class him as a great, but that is my subjective, ignorant view.

The only time your sister's ignorance could affect her subjective opinion is if she's saying Sheeran is a better guitar player than one she hadn't heard.

As long as she's heard both, her opinion on which is better is as valid as anyone's.

What knowledge could even make you think the holder's opinion is less subjective? Knowing what guitar parts are more difficult to do?

If it's about being able to do more physically difficult exercises than anyone else then the best guitarist would likely be some unknown shredder who might have YouTube videos these days; it definitely won't be Clapton, BB King or Hendrix.

But I don't think many would say that the best guitarist is the person who can do the most difficult exercises, it's about how good the actual music they make with their guitar is and there is absolutely no objective measure of how good music is. There's nothing academic about it, it's purely the opinion of an individual person.

Sassafras

himanshu5 said:

He was great.

I don't think he's dead - is he?
  

Sassafras

I'll tell you who's underrated: Michael Angelo Batio.
He can play 4 guitars at once.
Therefore JM is overrated because he only ever plays one at a time.

Roysterdoyster

SimonC said:

I don’t know whether JM is or any other guitarist is overrated or not.
To me it really is a nonsense term, where are the “ratings charts”, who are the “raters” and what points system or criteria do they use?

Eh?, come on man, everyone knows its an independent panel from the Overrated Guitar Player Institute in Fitchburg Massachusetts 

bloomer

I don't like him because whenever I hear him sing I picture him seducing my teenage daughter, and I don't even have a daughter. He is very good at guitar though.

AlexC

I’d never heard of him ‘til I joined this forum. I’m guessing he’s bigger in America than Britain. Must actually make a point of listening to him at some point, although I suspect he’s not my musical preference in style. But I’ll give anything a listen.

Mickeyji

John replaced frickin' Jerry Garcia in whatever is left of the Grateful Dead and did a phenomenal job of it - no mean feat.

axisus

Not overrated. Rated about right. He's written many memorable songs and he's a fabulous blues player. His triple live album Where the light is, is an exceptional record. I love his blues trio, I wish he'd do more of that stuff.

Fifty9

He’s underrated imho