Parental alienation

Shmoo

I'm not sure if anyone has been through this sort of thing but curious if they have any experience with it.
A couple of months ago my wife of 18 years (together for 22) told me out of the blue that she was unhappy and wanted a divorce - and actually told me formally she was divorcing me on our 18th wedding anniversary.
Since then she has told me via email she feels has decided it is in best interests for our son  not to have any contact with me for the time being - her reasoning is that I have depressive episodes, he should not have to be around me as it could be upsetting for him in case I am such a mood.
It has now been several weeks since I have had any contact with him. he will not open my messages (I don't bombard him just send him 1 a night to tell him I love and miss him.)
I was able to speak to my ex yesterday briefly and she says he does not want to see me, he has not opened a gift I sent him and a card i sent him remains unopened. From a legal standpoint I'm told by a lawyer  he is of an age where the courts would say he is old enough to say what he wants, although her wording that "I have decided it is in his best interests" not to have contact me leaves me worried that this is largely coming from her. I feel I have always had a very good relationship with my son until his mother decided to divorce me.
Anyways, it has been weeks since being cut off from my son and have no idea of when or if I will see him again.
Curious if anyone else has been through a child being alienated from them or similar situation,. Its pretty damn painful.

Iamnobody

Sorry to hear this. I can’t offer any insight as I’ve not been in this situation. 

However I have spent (too much?) time around people with depression and can confirm that it hasn’t affected me as a child or adult.

We all handle things differently but I don’t think that’s a reasonable justification for stopping contact.

Unless of course there’s some behaviours that you present that would make your son very uncomfortable. How old is he?

axisus

That sounds terrible, so sorry to hear how things have gone. Personally I wouldn't have agreed from the start about it being best for your son to not see you, if one parent has all the access they can be as poisonous as they want to be. Sorry I can't be helpful, I would seek out professional advice.

boogieman

That sounds a horrible situation. I don’t think it’s up to your wife to decide what’s in your son’s best interests though. Personally I would go to Citizens Advice and see where you stand. AFAIK she can’t just decide to not allow you access to him, you have rights too. 

WiresDreamDisasters

How was your relationship with your son before all of this? Did you fight or argue a lot? Did he ever confide personal things to you? If the relationship was good, then on the face of it it seems she's poisoned him against you. No two ways about it.

You're in a bad spot. Women can be incredibly spiteful when they decide they don't want to keep the family unit intact anymore.

You need to consult a lawyer. Someone who is going to fight for your rights as a parent. If you stay away just to keep the peace, sort of knowing that your son hasn't made this choice for himself (brainwashing or lies for example) then you're setting yourself up for some severe heartache in the future.

Please don't do what most men do in this situation. They remain quiet and don't fight their corner in the vain hope that she will change her mind. She is not going to change her mind. She'll drive a stake through your heart to get what she wants.

I'm talking in generalities, but I've seen it happen too many times. Other guys will scoff at this response but that's because they don't know any better.

Look after yourself. Stay away from booze and drugs. It wont help.

Paul_C

WiresDreamDisasters said:

How was your relationship with your son before all of this? Did you fight or argue a lot? Did he ever confide personal things to you? If the relationship was good, then on the face of it it seems she's poisoned him against you. No two ways about it.

You're in a bad spot. Women can be incredibly spiteful when they decide they don't want to keep the family unit intact anymore.

You need to consult a lawyer. Someone who is going to fight for your rights as a parent. If you stay away just to keep the peace, sort of knowing that your son hasn't made this choice for himself (brainwashing or lies for example) then you're setting yourself up for some severe heartache in the future.

Please don't do what most men do in this situation. They remain quiet and don't fight their corner in the vain hope that she will change her mind. She is not going to change her mind. She'll drive a stake through your heart to get what she wants.

I'm talking in generalities, but I've seen it happen too many times. Other guys will scoff at this response but that's because they don't know any better.

Look after yourself. Stay away from booze and drugs. It wont help.

I'm not going to scoff, because I have heard a number of horror stories too. I would like to point out that there are plenty of women that don't do this sort of thing (neither of the mothers of my kids have) and that men can do all sorts of weird things in these situations too.

I definitely agree that if you had a good relationship with your son before then you should be able to stay in contact going forwards. You only have her word about how he currently feels, and I doubt her word is worth a whole lot based on her behaviour.

If you can find a way of making contact without your ex getting in the way, maybe a school friend or another relative, then you might find that he's agreeing with his mother just to stop her giving him grief. If he's old enough to make his own mind up then he might choose to live with you, so don't give up until you have a much better idea of the facts.

TTony

[edit]
In hindsight, more about me than you, so probably not too helpful/relevant.
[/edit]

Giving advice beyond that is difficult because so much depends on the relationships you all had.  As a minimum though, ensure he knows where you are and how to contact you.  Accept that it might be weeks or months before he does.  Stay in touch, but not daily, possibly even not weekly.  Unprompted gifts probably won’t work either.

Ultimately, you can’t determine what he’ll do, nor when.  It’s down to him.

Ironically, my son went to the same Uni that I did, and did a similar degree.  He’s currently working in a very similar field and is a part-time musician.

LastMantra

Shit that must tough!

Don't know what to suggest really other than to seek professional help CitAdv. and maybe speak to your doctor. Don't suffer in silence. 
Really hope you get things sorted.

Heartfeltdawn

TTony said:

Ironically, my son went to the same Uni that I did, and did a similar degree.  He’s currently working in a very similar field and is a part-time musician.

But if he comes to you with plans to start up a UK-centric guitar forum online, you'll slap some sense into him, right?  

robgilmo

Its not your ex wifes decision, its for a judge to decide, get some legal advice.

beed84

My mum did it with me and my dad, although she was probably right in doing so; he was an alcoholic and hung around with not particularly nice people when he turned to the bottle. But he was still my dad, and not once was I consulted as to what I might want. It's been 20 odd years, and even now I think of seeing him before he leaves this planet because I might just regret it if I don't. And if anything, not seeing him has in some way probably aided to my own depression.

Anyway, I think what needs to be made clear in your situation is what your son wants. Also, your wife's perceived reality of the situation somehow needs adjusting. Her maternal instinct might be trying to "protect" her only child whereas the reality is that he's under no actual harm – often we can become so transfixed by what we believe to be true without cross-examining it first. And if anything is harming your son, it's giving him the belief that depression and depressive people are not good to be around. That really needs nipping in the bud. We're trying to get away from being stigmatised, not have others reinforce it.

Good luck with it all. I would certainly seek professional advice as other's have suggested 

ESBlonde

Legal route FIRST. You are jointly responsible for your son as you have proved, and it is not for her to decide otherwise unless there are special circumstances. Even then a judge should make that call.

We don't know your relationship with your son, so only you know if you attended school events and parents evenings, took him to scouts/judo/football etc.

Other routes to your son might be the inlaws, meeting him at a club event one evening, arranging with the school to visit and have a chaperone perhaps.

Wolfetone

May I ask why your wife asked for a divorce? The fact that 'she wasn't happy' doesn't really answer too many questions.

Funkfingers

Shmoo said:

she says he does not want to see me

Clear evidence that the situation is entirely of your (ex-)wife's making. 

The only person who should be telling you what your son wants to do is your son. Until divorce proceedings are completed, this stand off will probably continue. 

Stop the daily e-mails. Those could be wilfully misinterpreted as harassment.

Instead, find a way to communicate to your son that he is always unconditionally welcome to resume contact with you if/when he wishes to. Once the lad reaches the age of eighteen, he is free to make his own decisions.

Meanwhile, if a court decides that you are financially liable for some of the costs of your son's upbringing up until the age of eighteen, your legal representative ought to be able to make a counterargument for access. 

fob

I think you have to resolve yourself to the situation and get proper legal representation. You said you spoke with someone about this but not whether this was someone you've hired or just a mate in that field. If it is just a mate then he might have an idea of who would be good in this area of law.

If you aren't having any contact with your son then you don't know what his feelings are in the matter - whether what your wife saying is true. It's also possible that he is saying these things but only because he is with his mother who wants to push that viewpoint on him, either consciously or sub-consciously. This will be a very hard time for him and appeasing his mother might just seem like the right thing to do.

Don't forget your own happiness in this either; even with reluctance from your son, a continued relationship, as long as it's healthy, will be good for both of you in the long run.

Bottom line is that a judge will definitely be more impartial than your wife and, despite the legitimate stats that the legal system leans towards women in these cases, they will almost certainly be looking for a win-win-win outcome as far as that is possible.

Musicman20

I am so sorry to hear this.

Dealing with depression is hard enough, to then lose your family like this is extremely tough.

My advice is to take all steps, legally, to obtain contact with your son. Obviously I am an outsider, and your son's health etc comes before anything, but this seems like an extreme step to take.

I really struggle to see why people can't just help people when they are struggling. A mental health issue is just like a broken leg, so help someone with getting from A to B, which might be dealing with the depression and finding a way out.

I speak from experience, not from having a family etc, or a wife, but from having a partner of 10 years who, around 8.5 years, totally changed personality because I finally admitted I was struggling with anxiety and stress (high pressure job and helping her with her entire life!).

I was completely let down by her support when I needed it, and I kept on working! I kept saving money, I was sensible, and the worst thing to come from it was I had a rough 'year' and probably drank a little too much alcohol. 

I never could understand why she was so horrible about my situation. Fast forward to December 2018, and she had lied for 6 months and had actually bought an ENTIRE house behind my back, with her family being in on it.

I hope you get some peace with all this. Dealing with mental health is hard work for the sufferer and the partner, and I currently have a partner who also struggles every few days, but I think supporting them is the best medicine.  

boogieman

beed84 said:

My mum did it with me and my dad, although she was probably right in doing so; he was an alcoholic and hung around with not particularly nice people when he turned to the bottle. But he was still my dad, and not once was I consulted as to what I might want. It's been 20 odd years, and even now I think of seeing him before he leaves this planet because I might just regret it if I don't. And if anything, not seeing him has in some way probably aided to my own depression.

Anyway, I think what needs to be made clear in your situation is what your son wants. Also, your wife's perceived reality of the situation somehow needs adjusting. Her maternal instinct might be trying to "protect" her only child whereas the reality is that he's under no actual harm – often we can become so transfixed by what we believe to be true without cross-examining it first. And if anything is harming your son, it's giving him the belief that depression and depressive people are not good to be around. That really needs nipping in the bud. We're trying to get away from being stigmatised, not have others reinforce it.

Good luck with it all. I would certainly seek professional advice as other's have suggested 

My 2p worth (and apologies to the OP for the slight thread derail). My parents divorced when I was a teenager and I lived with my mum afterwards. She poisoned me with lots of tales of what a bastard my dad was, how he’d wrecked their marriage with an affair, and I didn’t see him for about 8 years. Eventually my wife persuaded me to talk to him and I then realised there are always two sides to the story. I’d have regretted not speaking to him again and hearing what he had to say. Go see your dad @beed84 ;

fields5069

My late niece was on her way to becoming alienated from my sister, when she was a teenager and my sister was divorcing her other half. I don't think there was any attempt to keep my niece away from my sister, but the environment with her dad was so much more permissive, near to all her friends, etc., that it was a struggle. Luckily it resolved herself long before my niece died. My point being that you do not know what will happen tomorrow, so you really need to fight for your rights and make sure you have access.

goldtop

A friend is going through (for several years now) this process. Four children, and the oldest two told the judge that they didn't want to see their father and the judge ruled so. The younger two, said the same, in what were letters clearly drafted by the mother. The judge - despite CAFCASS' recommending the opposite - ruled that the father can see the younger two. Initially that was by supervised contact at a LA centre (which went very poorly), but is now at the father's house.

All cases are different, because all of the personalities are different - not just parents and children, but also the CAFCAS case worker and the judge. It's a bit of a lottery, it seems.

CAFCAS are not trained on parental alienation, and in my frirend's case, the social workers did not want to use the term at all. However, there has been at least one senior family-court judge who has been vocal about it, and there's a slow recognition that it is a form of child abuse. You will find a Facebook support group which may help with sharing experience and advice.

Good luck.

goldtop

Just to add: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/17/parental-alienation-divorce-custody-crackdown-cafcass

Hopefully, these recent changes in awareness and policy means that CAFCASS will become somewhat more aware of the damage done in PA.

Jez6345789

Lots of good advice here, my one comment is yes stop any behaviour that could be construed as harassment of child or wife.

more important you need to get yourself sorted DR medication counselling exercise etc whatever will help to stabilise your mental health. As if you go for mediation formal custody agreement your mental health will be one of her objections and if it impacted in to your sons life when you were together you need to show you have your shit sorted getting help. 

Once you have a little balance it is then time to suggest mediation or legal. Piling in almost immediately will probably make your mental health a lot worse way to much stress.

take care of yourself first some time out will not destroy his bond to you, He needs you to be your best version.