Teach me about vintage Japanese guitars

YellowLedBetterMan

Seen a lot of ads on Facebook recently for Japanese guitars from the 70s and 80s. I've owned one of these before - a Shaftesbury 4003 Bass, which was nice but had issues from previous owners including a "old brush and crown emulsion" paint job.

So I'm looking at these guitars for around £200 (and lots under that) thinking are they any good? Anniversary with Ms HB is upcoming and she's asked me whether there's any guitars or anything I've seen that I want, and some of them look tempting.

Are there specific brands or factories (seen the names Fujigen and Matsumoku mentioned a lot) that I should look at? Specific models even?

Cheers

Fuengi

Paging @HarrySeven ;

OilCityPickups

There was some very good stuff and some absolutely awful stuff ... ignore the 'lawsuit' garbage spouted by some folks online ... old Shaftsbury, Columbus, Avon etc were mostly garbage. Some old Ibanez and Antoria guitars are excellent ... but probably not a patch on say a good second hand Epi Les Paul. 

JerkMoans

Also paging @russianbear ;

Danielsguitars

well I've just seen an mij 335 that is unbelievably shit, i need to get the board off reset the neck and make a new fretboard plus aload of other stuff done to it to try and make it work 

Never knew they could be that bad lol, I'll do a thread when i get round to it if he hasn't chucked it in the bin

I think an epi 335 would've been a much better option

I've had 2 grecos that were great, bit heavy but played and sounded really good 

Funkfingers

School’s out!

barnstorm

Most guitars of that period and price will need some work – or, as above, a lot.

If you like repairing and tweaking stuff, just buy something fun-looking with a straight neck, and you can only make it better, really. If you'd prefer not to start a thread in Making & Modding any time soon, I'd put the money towards something else!

The Frank Meyers book is worth having if you're interested in earlier Japanese guitars as well.

sweepy

You have a wide choice, early Yamaha SG SF SA, Tokai reborn, Ibanez, Kawai, Greco, Edwards etc

Neil

For around £200 be very wary.

A lot of that old Japanese stuff, Matsumoku or otherwise, is often a bit rubbishy.

Sellers often give extraordinary claims and potted history to go with it but IMO you'd be better off looking at used  Squier classic Vibes or similar. Most modern stuff is very well built.

The good Japanese stuff is usually priced a fair bit higher than £200. 

Stuckfast

The good Japanese stuff is mostly from the 80s and a decent Tokai, Greco or Burny will cost you a fair bit more than £200 unless you get lucky. There might still be decent deals to be had on the less fashionable stuff like Westones?

You can occasionally pick up bargains if you don't mind them not being all original. My Strat and Tele are both 80s Tokai copies and are lovely guitars. I think I paid about £150 each but the Tele had had the Tokai decals removed, and the Strat had a replacement neck.

You might well be able to find a 90s Japanese Silver Series Squier Strat within your budget.

Sassafras

I've had 2 Antorias. One was a 335 copy, the other was a jazz box. They were both very good and most of my friends coveted them to the point where I was on a security high alert, just to be on the safe side.

YellowLedBetterMan

Stuckfast said:

The good Japanese stuff is mostly from the 80s and a decent Tokai, Greco or Burny will cost you a fair bit more than £200 unless you get lucky. There might still be decent deals to be had on the less fashionable stuff like Westones?

Funnily enough, one of the ones I've seen is a Matsumoku made Westone Spectrum ST, for the low low price of £100. If nothing else, I figured it could make a good mod platform.

rossi

I see the fans on Facebook etc and wonder what they are talking about .Early Japanese was not loved at the time They are enthusing over 60,s 70,s crap that frankly we couldnt abide at the time .Believe me a Teisco Top Twenty isnt a Strat alternative .Its not even a guitar alternative .Westone Thunders are OK and playable if very heavy so its be care ful .I do have a Japanese ( I think) early Hondo which is rather  fun as long as it is not viewed as Les Paul alternative .Same for a Avon Les Paul custom fake ..I bought the Hondo  for about 40  quid which is about right and found the Avon up the tip which is also about right .They are fun ,nothing  more .  For anything over 100 quid buy a Squier or Epiphone or Harley Benton .

scrumhalf

Isn't the term "vintage Japanese" a bit broad?

1) You've got the blatant poor-quality copies. How many of us of a cfertain age started off on bolt-on neck LP copies with hum-tronic single coil pickups hidden under HB sized covers? I still have one, I've still to come across a better neck. Many, however, were bloody awful.

2) Then you have the early original designs, those weird-shaped Yamahas for example.

3) The late 70s early 80s original designs, like my beloved Westbury and some of the good Yamahas, Arias, Washburns and the like. Many of these are excellent.

YellowLedBetterMan

scrumhalf said:

Isn't the term "vintage Japanese" a bit broad?

1) You've got the blatant poor-quality copies. How many of us of a cfertain age started off on bolt-on neck LP copies with hum-tronic single coil pickups hidden under HB sized covers? I still have one, I've still to come across a better neck. Many, however, were bloody awful.

2) Then you have the early original designs, those weird-shaped Yamahas for example.

3) The late 70s early 80s original designs, like my beloved Westbury and some of the good Yamahas, Arias, Washburns and the like. Many of these are excellent.

I suppose the question is very broad yes, but seeing as these instruments are between 20 and 50 years old in some cases, and I've only been alive for 21 of them (and playing guitar and/or bass for 7) I have no idea when it comes to the topic.

roberty

Both vintage Japanese guitars I've owned needed work. The Tokai Tele was lovely and was the previous owners weekly gigger but literally none of the adjustable parts would move so the hardware needed a lot of work and some of it replacing. It needed a refret and while still playable the bridge was drilled in a fraction over to the treble side. My Ibanez AR100 was better but still needed a refret and about half a can of servisol lol. Both guitars were a wide margin over £200. Unless it's of particular value I think it's safe to assume a vintage guitar will turn into a project

Sassafras

I think you'll struggle to find a good'un for £200.
There are some very good old Japanese guitars around but these have become prized.
There's no shortage of rubbish ones that are being touted as collectable, they're not. Unless you collect firewood.

guitars4you

As an overview, by the time we got to the 'lawsuit' era and certain Jap replica models were starting to get it together - Not the be all and end all, but getting there - By the time Ibanez launched their Artist models, Yamaha with the SG/SA models and Aria the the PE models and things took a more serious upward grade - Then shortly after that Tokai with their excellent vintage replicas, followed by the early JV Fender/Squier models

Prior to that and again as an overview, many copies and original models had character, but the quality is a bit like that of an Austin Allegro - At the right price, the budget bolt on neck models are excellent DIY projects, with lots of character and I recall such guitars are were I both learnt to play on and learn some basis guitar set-up skills

I effectively agree with the comments above made by @scrumhalf ;

ICBM

It's worth remembering that the Yamaha SG was such a revelation when it came along in the mid-70s because it was *vastly* better than anything that had come out of Japan until that point - in a completely different league. It wasn't until near the end of the decade, and into the early 80s, when the quality really filtered through to the whole industry in Japan.

And I say that as someone who does like the also-ran Japanese 'copy era' guitars too - providing you accept that they usually need a fairly complete rebuild to be genuinely playable and good-sounding, and are only ever a quirky and interesting alternative to real high-quality guitars even after that. And that's what you're really looking at for £200...

blobb

For cheap, good, MIJ, I'd be looking at Ibanez Blazer or Roadster. You might struggle for £200 but you never know.

Teacherphil

In my opinion it's mostly hype. Being described as a lawsuit guitar doesn't mean that they were as good as fender or gibsons from that era. It just means they tried to stop then making cheap copies. Just because a guitar factory was destroyed by an earthquake doesn't make them rare or better. The Japanese guitars I've had are good looking instruments with a fair bit of mojo but nowhere near the quality of the original fenders, gibsons or even modern mid range guitars.