Teach me about vintage Japanese guitars

HarrySeven

rossi said:

I see the fans on Facebook etc and wonder what they are talking about.

Early Japanese was not loved at the time. They are enthusing over 60’s 70’s crap that frankly we couldnt abide at the time.

Believe me a Teisco Top Twenty isnt a Strat alternative. It’s not even a guitar alternative.

Indeed.

As I’ve said numerous times, if a guitar was shite in 1974, it’s still going to be shite in 2019.

scrumhalf

HarrySeven said:

As I’ve said numerous times, if a guitar was shite in 1974, it’s still going to be shite in 2019.

Yes, but now it's vintage shite.

HarrySeven

@YellowLedBetterMan - for -£200, I’d suggest:

*Westone Thunder 1 or 1A
*Westbury Standard

I’d - generally - avoid cheap Eros, Hondo, Antoria, Satellite, Jedson, CMI, Grant, Sakura, Zenta, Kay, CSL, Columbus, etc, etc.

A ‘decent’ name doesn’t always guarantee quality - some budget Ibanez-branded LP/Strat copies were also poor.

That said, one of my all-time favourite guitars is a bolt-on neck Jedson LP copy, 

If you really, really, REALLY want some ‘70’s MIJ-ness, do lots of research, play as many as you can and see how it looks from there onwards.

Part of the chase with this kind of thing is patience, perseverance and a good dose of luck. I’ve picked up numerous examples of mid/mid-ish range stuff between £5-£200. These include: Westone Thunder 1/1A’s, Spectrums, Yamaha SG200 (x2),  Ibanez Blazers/Roadstars, Studio (ST-50) and Artists, Westbury Standards, Antonia Jazzstar, Antoria 2350CS, 2350WH, Aria Pro II’s inc. PEs, Cardinals, TS-600 (x2), various Pearl LP copies, etc, etc...

hassleham

Kind of related: I was in a ‘vintage and rare antiques’ sort of shop in st ives the other day and they were selling a black CSL les Paul copy for £1250!   

Henrytwang

A lot of the old Japanese guitars  were not great when new and age hasn’t improved them. I quite liked the sound of the crudely made single coil pickups used on late 60s/early 70s models. These days those old guitars sell for stupidity high prices, there was a time not so many years ago when you could find them at boot sales at around £15 apiece. They’re certainly not worth today’s asking prices, I do wonder how many of them listed on eBay actually sell at the daft prices being asked.

Dave_Vader

hassleham said:

Kind of related: I was in a ‘vintage and rare antiques’ sort of shop in st ives the other day and they were selling a black CSL les Paul copy for £1250!   

I know that shop, the prices are excellently funny.

Is that white firebird still there?

Sarge

I was(maybe still am) a bit of a Westone fanboy, I've owned maybe 20 over the years and not one of them could be considered poor quality unless it was being inspected by a guitar snob.

£200 will get you a good well built, mid range Westone (thunder, low end pantera, high end spectrum etc) the Spectrum St you mention should be a solid, guitar if it has been cared for and the neck will be medium chunky but (for me) very very comfortable, £100 is a good price for a tidy specimen, I certainly wouldn't pay much more than that, considering it was the basic model.

As mentioned above Aria Cardinal, Westbury Standard, Ibanez Blazer would all be good options. 

I wasn't going to go there.... but sod it, I have a Westbury Standard and a Westone Thunder (both refinished) available for around your budget, shoot me a pm if there's any interest, or have a look for my refinishing threads on those guitars. 

Good luck! 

p90fool

Henrytwang said:

A lot of the old Japanese guitars  were not great when new and age hasn’t improved them. I quite liked the sound of the crudely made single coil pickups used on late 60s/early 70s models. 

Me too, and always post this fantastic jam as an illustration. Funnily enough it took me ages to figure out how to get similar sounds out of my real Les Paul!

thebreeze

^ loving that one

ESBlonde

As has been stated, there are good MIJ classics, but they are largely acknowledged as such these days and attract prices accordingly.

Most of the factories had flagship models for want of a better term. These got great press at the time of release and built a brand reputation. Then the market filled with also rans. Given what the americans were turning out at the time and what had constituted MIJ in the 60s, they were a pretty good choice.

As part of your education, learn about Matsumoko from the enthusiasts.

http://www.matsumoku.org/messageboard.html

drdave

Agree- early 70s not so good, but by early 80s the bar had been raised by Yamaha and Ibanez. If you note, it isn't too long before the improved standards meant higher costs and mid-to-late 80s a lot of the companies shifted production to Korea. You absolutely can get a great guitar for that price but (a) you need to do a lot of research first on to get up to speed and (b) I think any guitar from that period should be sent to a professional to be set up. I picked up a cheap Hondo (Korean) for less than £200, and it had all sorts of issues but a new nut, resetting bridge, touched up frets, and new tuning heads transformed it. I'd have to pay three times as much to get a new guitar of similar build. So I'd say £200 also would include an extra £100 plus to get it set up properly.

NelsonP

brooom said:

Currently have one of these on my way... a 1960s Morales:

Could just be the angle of the photo, but that neck pickup doesn't look straight?!?

;-)

crunchman

I had a CSL Strat copy that was pretty good.  It was hardtail, and I think the body was probably made from mahogany rather than alder/ash as is traditional, but it was a solid guitar.

Very similar to the one here:

https://guitar-auctions.co.uk/portfolio-post/lot-83-csl-stratocaster-style-electric-guitar/

ICBM

crunchman said:

I had a CSL Strat copy that was pretty good.  It was hardtail, and I think the body was probably made from mahogany rather than alder/ash as is traditional, but it was a solid guitar.

Very similar to the one here:

https://guitar-auctions.co.uk/portfolio-post/lot-83-csl-stratocaster-style-electric-guitar/

Matsumoku factory. Very similar to the Ibanez Blazer they also made, but with a more conventionally Strat-like body shape.

vonLayzonfon

My first electric was a second hand Westone Thunder 1-A.  Bought for £100 in 1987, it beat out a brand new Marlin Sidewinder.  I still have it and it plays nicely, although the pots have gone a bit scratchy and despite having built a few guitars the active circuit is scary enough for me not to want to dabble with (I'm still not great with a soldering iron).  And, as mentioned, it's heavy. Really heavy.

Recently I've caught myself looking for Marlins on the bay/tree. Being tempted by the nostalgic draw of "the first guitar I never had".  Utter nonsense, of course.  So far I've managed to resist...

ICBM

vonLayzonfon said:

My first electric was a second hand Westone Thunder 1-A.  Bought for £100 in 1987, it beat out a brand new Marlin Sidewinder.  I still have it and it plays nicely, although the pots have gone a bit scratchy and despite having built a few guitars the active circuit is scary enough for me not to want to dabble with (I'm still not great with a soldering iron).

Try cleaning them with contact cleaner (Servisol, Electrolube etc), and if that doesn't work, try WD40 - the ordinary stuff, not their proper contact cleaner. Frowned upon by many, but it very often does work and if contact cleaner has failed it's worth a go.

vonLayzonfon said:

Recently I've caught myself looking for Marlins on the bay/tree. Being tempted by the nostalgic draw of "the first guitar I never had".  Utter nonsense, of course.  So far I've managed to resist...

Some Sidewinders are actually pretty nice, despite their reputation. The weak point is the bridge, so if you're going to buy one you need to be sure it's not started to fall apart, or has already been properly replaced with a different bridge... the original blocks are unobtainable.

crunchman

One thing I would be careful of is mid-80s Ibanez Roadstars with locking trems.  The locking bridge on them isn't great.  I had one that I had problems with.  Even when it works right, it eats sustain.

ICBM

crunchman said:

One thing I would be careful of is mid-80s Ibanez Roadstars with locking trems.  The locking bridge on them isn't great.  I had one that I had problems with.  Even when it works right, it eats sustain.

Many of these proprietary Japanese bridge designs are also very difficult to replace with a different bridge, without doing major work to the guitar.

marktheharp

@vonLayzonfon ;
You have message regarding  Marlin Sidewinder

vonLayzonfon

@ICBM. Wizd. Cheers.