Teach me about vintage Japanese guitars

guitars4you

ICBM said:

It's worth remembering that the Yamaha SG was such a revelation when it came along in the mid-70s because it was *vastly* better than anything that had come out of Japan until that point - in a completely different league. 

agree about the SG - ditto add the Ibanez AS and AR models and I recall a touch later the Aria PE

It helped Yamaha etc that it came out when Gibson, to many, was at such a low ebb

But remember they were not cheap - An SG1000 and SG2000 were comparable in price to the LP models

prowla

You won't get a vintage Japanese Ric bass copy for £200 these days. The better thru-neck ones can be £500-600. The Hondos are MIK, and can be OK(ish), and probably go for around the £350 mark. Don't accidentally buy a Chickenbacker (inc. Rockinbetter) thinking it's got mojo. I've got a CMI thru-neck and a Vorg bolt-on one.

The cheapo plywood Teisco (Woolworths, Top Twenty, Audition, Jedson) ones are as rubbish now as they were in the 70s, but they're fun to have - I bought an Audition 6-string a few months back (machines now replaced with ones that will actually wind!).

The mid-range ones (Grant, Columbus, Antoria, Avon, etc.) are probably just below a Squier.

There were some good 70s guitars: Greco, Ibanez (some), Yamaha, Aria Pro II, etc., but the good 'uns aren't cheap. It's worth noting that some brands have been resurrected and are now being made in China (Aria Pro, Shaftesbury, etc.).

The factories (Mat, Fuji, etc.) seem to have had a pick-list of options available for selection (pickups options, machines, single/twin truss-rods, single or dual jack sockets, etc.) and they'd happily do a run and slap on a customer's logo to finish it off. I've seen the same instrument branded Diamond, Vorg (see below), Aria, CMI, and others.

CMI thru-neck Ric bass

Vorg bolt-on neck Ric bass

Audition abomination

Zenta EB-esque bass

I've also got a mid-range Toka Strat which had its finish removed with a chisel and needs some work doing to get it refinished and ship-shape again.

Overall, the 70s vintage Japanese instruments are fun for what they are.

Beware that there were some remarkably good instruments MIJ, but that doesn't mean they all were!

LastMantra

YellowLedBetterMan said:

Stuckfast said:

The good Japanese stuff is mostly from the 80s and a decent Tokai, Greco or Burny will cost you a fair bit more than £200 unless you get lucky. There might still be decent deals to be had on the less fashionable stuff like Westones?

Funnily enough, one of the ones I've seen is a Matsumoku made Westone Spectrum ST, for the low low price of £100. If nothing else, I figured it could make a good mod platform.

My first electric was one of those Spectrums. Was pretty decent. Although I wouldn't have known what good tone was back then. Played fine and everything worked as it should. No sharp frets or anything like that. 
Gave it to a mate when I got a proper strat...kind of wish I hadn't tbh. It was a nice blue colour which you don't see as much.

I'd say it would be well worth £100!

Matt_McG

I had, until recently, a bolt on early 70s LP copy.

Bad: pressed plywood and jigsaw offcut body. Poor tuners, poor quality bridge. 

Middling: the pots and wiring and switch were all solid. I had to replace one pot, after I had had it 10 years.

Good: the neck was really excellent. Nice D shape. Very low action with no buzzing or dead spots. Intonated well. I’ve played 2K guitars with worse necks. The pickups were fine, too. Sweet sounding, not too aggressive, well balanced humbuckers. I replaced them. Swapped it back for sale, and remembered the originals were better than the replacements.

prowla

Ah, I forgot my Westone Thunder bass (bought this year).

It's in-budget and sounds good, but it's also bloomin' heavy!

hassleham

blobb said:

For cheap, good, MIJ, I'd be looking at Ibanez Blazer or Roadster. You might struggle for £200 but you never know.

+1 for this. I’ve had two fujigen blazer 1995 reissues and they were both brilliant. The first one cost me £90 and was cheap because it had some fretwear and the fretboard was very worn out. I did a homemade fret swap on a few of the frets (and by some miracle it played well afterwards!)
I sold it again to someone on this forum for less than I paid and they ended up relisting it on eBay for £300ish without mentioning the fact that it had a dodgy partial fret change! Anyway, it was still a lot of guitar for the £90 that I paid. 

The second blazer I’ve still got and it’s awesome.

Ive always wanted to compare them with one of the older blazer or roadstar models but they always have deluded prices so ive not had the chance yet.

Adey

I've had loads of Japanese guitars over the last few years.

The Westones and Arias I've had have been excellent guitars, and also Westburys and similarly shaped Vox's.

If you can find a Westone Spectrum FX, they are really good. I wish I hadn't sold mine now.

My current favourite is a Washburn WP 50 Les Paul copy. The jury is out as to whether it is Japanese or Korean, but it is way better than my mate's Gibson. I also had the Washburn WP80 Les Paul custom copy. Another regretted sale.....

brooom

Currently have one of these on my way... a 1960s Morales:

Flanging_Fred

I really love Japanese guitars of this era.  For £200 I would definitely look for a Westbury Standard.  They often have tatty paintwork around the German carve on the edges and on the top of the headstock, but they sound and feel great with a real character to them.  I sold mine to raise money for a Gibson R8 but I really miss it and keep looking for a suitable replacement.

My Westone Thunder Jet is lighter than the other Thunder models and I find the neck really comfy. The coil split makes them versatile but it maybe doesn’t have the character of the Westbury. Only comes in black though which can make things a bit tricky on a dark stage!

El Maya (not Maya) guitars have superb build quality but are less common than many and will probably be well over £200.  My El Maya em1300 is great if in the ‘acquired taste’ bracket.

My Audition 7001 (same as pictured above) is admittedly a really crappy guitar but it does have one trick up it’s sleeve, it makes a very serviceable slide guitar with that really growly pickup.

blobb

You know Dave Brock from Hawkwind? He plays a Westone Spectrum LX, and before that a Westone Paduak.

TTony

YellowLedBetterMan said:

So I'm looking at these guitars for around £200 (and lots under that) thinking are they any good? 

No.


Japanese guitar building followed the normal development curve of any industry, in any country.

When they started, they were - errr - shit.  The Jap guitars that you see from the 60s and early 70s might have an aesthetic appeal (if you've not been to Specsavers recently), but they were generally poorly built, poor sounding, and poor players.  And time hasn't been kind to most of them.

The Japanese were really learning the art of mass production of guitars through to mid-70s ish.

Post mid-70s, they became a lot better.  Which is why some of them got sued.  Gibson were turning out shit at the time so the Japanese guitars were a real threat.  Gibson did the American thing and, rather than sort out their own QC, they threw lawyers at the problem.

If you read up, there were actually very few legal actions.  Though, based on eBay ads, you might assume that every guitar built anywhere near Japan after 1950 was the sprinkled with magic pixie dust (called "lawsuit") that somehow made the guitars incredible, and now worth loadsa money.  They weren't, it didn't, and they aren't.

Post mid-70s, there were some brilliant Japanese guitars with QC that thrashed the Yanks (remember, the Japanese won the consumer electronics market and the motorbike market and the car market with their quality/price) and their own designs too (swerving the lawsuit risk).  

You won't find those guitars for £200.  Yam SGs, Ibanez Artist, Aria PE, Washburn wing range, Kawai (I would say that), and more, are now well regarded - for good reason - and sell for sensible money.  Not silly money - you should be able to find decent examples of any of them for <£1k, but not £200.

For ~£200, you'll get a much better guitar if you watch the Classifieds here.  PRS SEs have been known around that price.  Yams, partsas, Epis, there's a long list.  They'll all be better guitars than a £200 '70s MiJ guitar.

All that said, and if you missed your appointment at Specsavers, £200 would probably buy you a '70s MiJ guitar that you could leave on a stand in the corner, or stick it on a wall, as a curiosity.

Or, for £200, get yourself a kit and put it together.  Then gradually tweak it over the years ahead ...

YellowLedBetterMan

TTony said:

YellowLedBetterMan said:

So I'm looking at these guitars for around £200 (and lots under that) thinking are they any good? 

No.


Japanese guitar building followed the normal development curve of any industry, in any country.

When they started, they were - errr - shit.  The Jap guitars that you see from the 60s and early 70s might have an aesthetic appeal (if you've not been to Specsavers recently), but they were generally poorly built, poor sounding, and poor players.  And time hasn't been kind to most of them.

The Japanese were really learning the art of mass production of guitars through to mid-70s ish.

Post mid-70s, they became a lot better.  Which is why some of them got sued.  Gibson were turning out shit at the time so the Japanese guitars were a real threat.  Gibson did the American thing and, rather than sort out their own QC, they threw lawyers at the problem.

If you read up, there were actually very few legal actions.  Though, based on eBay ads, you might assume that every guitar built anywhere near Japan after 1950 was the sprinkled with magic pixie dust (called "lawsuit") that somehow made the guitars incredible, and now worth loadsa money.  They weren't, it didn't, and they aren't.

Post mid-70s, there were some brilliant Japanese guitars with QC that thrashed the Yanks (remember, the Japanese won the consumer electronics market and the motorbike market and the car market with their quality/price) and their own designs too (swerving the lawsuit risk).  

You won't find those guitars for £200.  Yam SGs, Ibanez Artist, Aria PE, Washburn wing range, Kawai (I would say that), and more, are now well regarded - for good reason - and sell for sensible money.  Not silly money - you should be able to find decent examples of any of them for <£1k, but not £200.

For ~£200, you'll get a much better guitar if you watch the Classifieds here.  PRS SEs have been known around that price.  Yams, partsas, Epis, there's a long list.  They'll all be better guitars than a £200 '70s MiJ guitar.

All that said, and if you missed your appointment at Specsavers, £200 would probably buy you a '70s MiJ guitar that you could leave on a stand in the corner, or stick it on a wall, as a curiosity.

Or, for £200, get yourself a kit and put it together.  Then gradually tweak it over the years ahead ...

A build your own kit does sound tempting but after spending all afternoon building a pedalboard, part of me is dreading the idea

TTony

A build your own is a great opportunity to really learn about how to set up a guitar to play as you want it to - and you can apply that knowledge to all your other guitars too.

 As well as the satisfaction of playing something and thinking "I built this"!

Adey

1970s Japanese - probably best to avoid unless you know what you are buying...

1980s generally much better.

Loads of Westone Spectrums about and can be had under £200 if you're lucky.

Also Aria Cardinals are good and buy-able in that price bracket.

rossi

For a 200 quidder  you could buy a Squier Bullet Mustang and a Bullet Strat Hardtail or five Squier SE  or Affinty Strats if you look hard enough on Gumtree .It should get you a Squier  Trohmann Tele which covers most ground sensible guitarists may need apart for the whammy  and has a neck to die for ,not just my opinion .Just suggesting .

My Westone Thunder 1 played very well and sounded good but not a guitar for old men though I wasnt at the time .You could certainly gig it and also use it as a sledge hammer for stone crushing ..Certainly worth a look .The Maya 335 I had looked fantastic but was very dubious and I wisely swapped it in at the  shop I bought it from for a JV strat .A merciful escape .

YellowLedBetterMan

I'm not sure if want a Squier Tele. I already have a MiM Player Tele which is my guitar #1, and anything T-shaped wouldn't get a look in. As for the idea of the Squier Bullets, maybe I could take a look but I think they're a bit bland.

Adey

There is a fabulous pink Westone Pantera on eBay the the moment with original case. It'll be sold for more than your budget, but not by much.

What a fab guitar!

prowla

prowla said:

Ah, I forgot my Westone Thunder bass (bought this year).

It's in-budget and sounds good, but it's also bloomin' heavy!

@YellowLedBetterMan - I'll sell you this for what I bought it for, if you like.

YellowLedBetterMan

Tempted @prowla ; but I'm not playing bass at all these days - don't even have a bass amp in the house at the minute.

prowla

YellowLedBetterMan said:

Tempted @prowla ; but I'm not playing bass at all these days - don't even have a bass amp in the house at the minute.

:-)