Are modellers as good as amps?

NelsonP

I played a valve amp again last night for the first time in a while after playing modellers pretty much exclusively via PAs and FRFRs for the past couple of years.

It was much more touch sensitive, had better feel, sounded fuller, had more punch than I remember. I liked it. A lot.
It might just be that I was playing it at louder volume through the valve amp?

I have to admit it has stopped me in my tracks a bit. Do I stay committed to the modelling path, or turn back to my trusty old valve amp, losing all of that amazing flexibility, effects and importantly, ability to play at sensible home volumes.

Going back to tube amps would probably mean:
Buying a 1 x 12 cab
Selling my 4 x 12 cab (too big / impractical these days)
Buying an HXFX
Buying a load box
Potenially selling my modelling rig

...and plenty more lugging around of stuff (i.e. head, cab, board) vs just a board on it's own, less flexibility etc

Thoughts?

Edit: I play at home and jam with mates (using a PA). No gigging, but I do cart my kit around every week.

Cirrus

It strikes me that the question in the thread title is cut off before the bit that'd make it answerable;

Are modellers as good as amps *for x*

For being convincing valve amps? Valve amps are better
For giving you a consistent sound at a wide range of volumes including home use? Modellers.
For making music fans/listeners can connect with emotionally? Either, it just comes down to what helps you make good art.

I think a lot of the time with modellers it just depends how you're turning the electrical current coming from the output into actual sound waves.

Handsome_Chris

Nah. Modellers are better than amps.  If they're good enough for  Ron Thal (Line 6 Helix LT) and Nita Strauss (Boss GT-1000) then I'm sure it  for will do for the majority of the tFB population.

PolarityMan

hybrid setup and get the best of both worlds...im running a helix and a diezel VH4 

thecolourbox

As Cirrus says it's definitely a "depends". I had a Princeton which was useless at home volume and preferred a Zoom G3 or Joyo American Sound into a mixer & monitors. That made them better to me.

I also find using valve amps to be rather impractical in a live setting, because they are usually too quiet clean or too loud overdriven, plus they still require micing with good monitors or are too directional in sound. With modellers you've much less chance of high volume damaging your ears, joe public will get a reliable sound if you use it right and you've less heavy kit to transport about. 

Yes the biggest pro touring bands might always use the huge stacks and combos etc but they can afford the staff to manage it and the excess of it all is part of the show. Chord bashing to the likes of Steve and Linda down the pub doesn't require that kind of excess 

uncledick

PA systems have come such a long way that, from the audience's point of view, they'd say you sound better through the modelling setup.  Is it better than being in a room with a a nice Tweed Deluxe at its sweet spot - no.

MentalSharps

Modellers have finally been able to match the tonal quality of valve amplifiers and have now consigned them to history. They've done this multiple times actually -- with each new generation of modellers. For some reason all these previous generations of modellers are now clogging up landfill sites across the world, but rest assured they have matched valve amplifiers in every way. Until the next generation that is.

steven70

Might as well play a Keytar if you're going to use a modelling setup....mwahahaha

dazzajl

I’ve been very happy with my Fender Mustang for home play and jams. It does a fine job of getting clean and gritty sounds and lets me add all the effects I need. Goes from whisper quiet to full band loud and is small and light for 1x12. 

I have just gone back the other way though. ‘Proper’ amp with a Helix FX and an attenuator. Not actually much more faff at all but undeniably a much richer and more satisfying sound. Whether anyone listening would hear the same difference as I feel is a whole other question mind 

Heel

I’m gonna say no. 

gearaddict

I'd say Yes. Yes, they are.

TTBZ

For my current situation (playing quietly at home) the HX Stomp is pretty good - much better than trying to keep a valve amp quiet. I don’t think it sounds or feels 100% there at least playing through my headphones. Palm muted chuggery, cleaning up with the guitar etc are where I’m starting to notice the feel isn’t there. Neck pickup lead tones can sometimes just sound weird and flubby once some gain is introduced. None of the Marshall models are even close to how the real thing sounds which is annoying. But for my situation it’s better than nothing. If I had somewhere I was able to play my amp at a decent volume I wouldn’t have even considered a modeller.

I may get a load box to use the Stomp as an IR loader/fx unit/interface. At least then the amp bit is real and it’s just the speaker/mic that’s being modelled.

theflyisback

I've gone full swing from amps to modellers over the last year.

Partly by default as my amp was letting me down reliability wise, partly as i just got sick of hauling heavy gear around.

The only time I could play the amp at its peak performance and appreciate its tonal qualities was in my band rehearsal room where we dictated how best our rig was set up week in week out.  An ideal set up where the amp could "fill the room". 

Valve amps (especially big ones) do sound pretty nice at home volumes aswell - especially for me as i play pretty clean.  


I felt a bit short changed when i gigged with the amp.  Moving it around in and out of a car boot and lugging it across the city streets definately contributed towards it getting knocked and damaged and tubes failing and fuses blowing (no matter how well i looked after it).  And it let me down at a few gigs.

Also, i was finding that in most venues i had to turn the bloody thing down volume wise so much on stage that it deviated massively from my core sound (that i spent years crafting) as well as interfering greatly with my pedal settings and behaviours.  I know its not the most perfect indicator but listening back to some videos of my band live the sound that comes out of the PA is a million miles from the sound we perfected at rehearsals.  Whether this is down to poor sound engineers at venues, or acoustics of a venue, or a volume thing i don't know.  But at that volume i doubt you could be that able to notice (or care enough) the difference between the real thing and modelling anyway. 


So, for the last year, i haven't gigged much at all, but i have been experimenting with multi fx units (HX effects) and with amp modelling (HX Stomp, Mooer GE200, Amplifi TT) and i'm having much more joy, in particular getting a 'sound' that I can replicate at 99% of the environments and situations i find myself playing in.  Certainly that little bit of doubt that can creep in on stage (which, to be fair, can be a good thing and work for you at times!) has disappeared and im in much more control.  I haven't even gotten as far as using the real high end modelling stuff (Kemper, Axefx) either so i expect there is scope for it being even better from an 'amp sim' perspective.

Great part about it is these all in one modellers and fx units are so great these days - setting patches for individual songs and having that reliability is a massive thing, especially in a band situation.  


Don't get me wrong, if im at home and just want to noodle around, a guitar, some basic effects (if needed) and a great valve amp set up is unbeatable.  Definitely dynamically too - as in the marriage between the strings and the warmth coming from the speakers.   But as i say, in a band, where you are playing in multiple situations, multiple sized places etc - modelling is a no brainer.  Recording aswell.  A modeller into a DAW is so much more accessible than micing an amp.  


I'd like to try and get some gigging under my belt with modelling though to see how it sounds and feels in that situation, i.e. micing front of house, just monitoring (rather than feeling pushed air of an amp next to you), maybe IEM's etc. 


But yeah, until im famous enough to have enough money to buy the best analogue pedals, valve amps, guitars etc and have a crew carrying it for me, setting it up each night, servicing it for me etc.  then modelling will suit me just fine.  Just wish the tech was as good 20 years ago when i was still cool and fit enough to have benefitted from it!




 

NelsonP

steven70 said:

Might as well play a Keytar if you're going to use a modelling setup....mwahahaha

sweepy

Both different and valid in their own way

Modulus_Amps

its about you, what inspires you, what makes you play better, if its a gazzilion pedals into a peavey solid state then rock it!

You can play at home through your PC/laptop these days, "home amps" are not really needed if you have some IT kit and software upgrades and options are cheap and plentiful

WiresDreamDisasters

Sounds like you need a valve amp in yer life bruv!

monquixote

Are trees as good as the colour blue?

stratman3142

NelsonP said:

steven70 said:

Might as well play a Keytar if you're going to use a modelling setup....mwahahaha

 I had a surreal moment when I thought that was Eric Johnson at first glace.

Stevepage

I think with modellers (I had the Helix LT) the tone  you can achieve is great. To the point where you think, yeah I can use that.

But then when you play through a good valve amp again, you realise you've been missing something. 

I was quite happy with the Helix but when I bought my Mark IV I was set and it brought a smile to my face.

soma1975

All you need to know is Mark Knopfler switched to Kemper and now Mark Knopfler is retiring.