The Clapton 'Beano' Les Paul

soma1975

cgumtree said:

soma1975 said:

cgumtree said:

soma1975 said:

Pretty certain between Clapton and the people at Gibson that did the CC version and the forensic guitar police they could confirm it with a reasonable degree of certainty. Unless it has been refinished or heavily modded or similar. If there were only around 1500 bursts made between the end of '58 and '60, and presumably only half of those at most made in 1960, and then all the ones that can be accounted for and with a full history taken out of the running there's not the biggest pool of Les Pauls to choose from that could be it. 

EDIT: 635 made in 1960. 213 of which are logged. However many hundreds of which are destroyed. 

http://www.burstserial.com/index.php?/category/1437

"many hundreds of which are destroyed"

More were destroyed than are logged? How can you be certain of this? I'm sure some have been destroyed, but I can't believe it's a large proportion of those produced. 

Well it's just the nature of guitars innit? They were tools and not revered valuables....  They broke, got broken. Got poorly stored. It's like 60s years on now. 

Many hundreds is a guess of course but a fair old few are no longer with us. 

@springhead I'm sure you are correct. So that would mean loads more ARE accounted for but not listed on that site. So even fewer that could possibly be Beano. 

I agree, they were tools, but still expensive tools even back then. I'd like to think people took care of them for that reason. As we do today. I've gigged guitars, but have never had one destroyed beyond repair. Sure, some get stolen, but they still survive.

My guess would be the number destroyed is in the dozens, rather than hundreds. It's just not everyone posts theirs on LPF or burstserial.

I find it hard to believe those that own them don't know what they have these days, it's just not everyone wants to tell the world what they have. They would rather keep them for their own enjoyment and to pass on to the next generation. 

Fair enough. Still reckon if it surfaced it could be verified. 

Adey

tony99 said:

soma1975 said:

Grumpyrocker said:

soma1975 said:

Bonamassa clearly knows where it is and has seen it and spoke about it on a forum, and then was reminded it was a stolen guitar and massively backtracked and deleted posts...

Odd. Why wouldn't he inform Clapton where it was so he could get it back?

Because I assume it was one of his rich investment banker friends who owns it. 

Can one "own" stolen goods??

Yes.

If an insurance company pays out for its loss, they become the new owner - if it should be recovered.

They can then sell it if they want to, to recover their loss, and you can buy it if you want to.

RandallFlagg

matone said:

bbill335 said:

shugz said:

i hadn't heard this before, thanks for sharing. does anyone else hear a fuzzbox in there? 

...think it`s just `loudness`  !!!

Yeah, I just hear a really loud amp and I want to hear an SG but not sure it is, it may be Les Paul with PAFs or a guitar with a P90, it has that sharp treble attack but with some roundness on the lower strings.

Not heard this before, it sounds great.

shugz

Les Paul, bridge pickup and half stack - up full.

shugz

There were others doing the volume thing by then, one mostly forgotten gem is Eddie Phillips of the Creation but, pound for pound, in my view EC moved things on.

Sure, 'better' players maybe followed on using his template but really guitar sound as we know it changed massively around that 18 months or so with the bigger Brit amps and the lads that knew how to use them and for that I think we owe EC and co a lot.

As ever just my 2ps worth

H

bbill335

RandallFlagg said: juju

matone said:

bbill335 said:

shugz said:

i hadn't heard this before, thanks for sharing. does anyone else hear a fuzzbox in there? 

...think it`s just `loudness`  !!!

Yeah, I just hear a really loud amp and I want to hear an SG but not sure it is, it may be Les Paul with PAFs or a guitar with a P90, it has that sharp treble attack but with some roundness on the lower strings.

Not heard this before, it sounds great.

the sharp treble could be the firebird 1 he often played in cream/BF

TINMAN82

shugz said:

There were others doing the volume thing by then, one mostly forgotten gem is Eddie Phillips of the Creation but, pound for pound, in my view EC moved things on.

Sure, 'better' players maybe followed on using his template but really guitar sound as we know it changed massively around that 18 months or so with the bigger Brit amps and the lads that knew how to use them and for that I think we owe EC and co a lot.

As ever just my 2ps worth

H

I think the truth is far fewer “better” players than E.C. gets credit for these days.

impmann

shugz said:

There were others doing the volume thing by then, one mostly forgotten gem is Eddie Phillips of the Creation but, pound for pound, in my view EC moved things on.

Sure, 'better' players maybe followed on using his template but really guitar sound as we know it changed massively around that 18 months or so with the bigger Brit amps and the lads that knew how to use them and for that I think we owe EC and co a lot.

As ever just my 2ps worth

H

Eddie Phillips is a hero of mine. He invented the violin bow  on the guitar thing (How Does it Feel to Feel).

His 335 (complete with hacksaw damage) passed to Dave Gregory who used it on the early XTC stuff. Dave had it restored, without realising its history!

I met Eddie in the mid 90s at the Creation Records ‘Undrugged’ party - iirc he was driving tube trains at the time! 

Seziertisch

bbill335 said:

RandallFlagg said: juju

matone said:

bbill335 said:

shugz said:

i hadn't heard this before, thanks for sharing. does anyone else hear a fuzzbox in there? 

...think it`s just `loudness`  !!!

Yeah, I just hear a really loud amp and I want to hear an SG but not sure it is, it may be Les Paul with PAFs or a guitar with a P90, it has that sharp treble attack but with some roundness on the lower strings.

Not heard this before, it sounds great.

the sharp treble could be the firebird 1 he often played in cream/BF

Or else eq applied at the time of tracking or mix down. Chasing guitar tones off records, particularly when they were tracked to tape, can be frustrating

shugz

To the best of my limited knowledge he didnt have the Firebird in '66.

H

ICBM

There's also an issue with close-mic'ing a cab with a dynamic mic, where the microphone coil (and transformer, if there is one) can pick up signal from the speaker voice coil directly, by electromagnetic induction - this hasn't gone through the filtering and softening of the speaker cone, so the result is a harsh, fuzzy top-end. It would apply to ribbon mics with a transformer in the mic body too, which may have been used back then.

shugz

TINMAN82 said:

shugz said:

There were others doing the volume thing by then, one mostly forgotten gem is Eddie Phillips of the Creation but, pound for pound, in my view EC moved things on.

Sure, 'better' players maybe followed on using his template but really guitar sound as we know it changed massively around that 18 months or so with the bigger Brit amps and the lads that knew how to use them and for that I think we owe EC and co a lot.

As ever just my 2ps worth

H

I think the truth is far fewer “better” players than E.C. gets credit for these days.

I know EC brings in a lot of polarity in terms of opinion. I'm obviously a fan but know not everyone is. My point was really that many others used similar rigs to the Bluesbreaking and early Creamery EC but for me at least, he was the pioneer of all that and we owe him a lot whether we care to admit. I think personally only Peter Green a 'better' blues player but many may differ. As the old story goes - one's mileage may vary

H

designerseye88

I think the majority of bursts are accounted for or at least known, What we see being sold through big dealers and on the burst serial log is just the tip of the iceberg. Most sales are private and done through independent 3rd parties. Occasionally they are still found like the recent 1960 that was found in their dads wardrobe.

https://www.my1960gibsonburst.com/

But I think a lot of collectors and owners keep the identity of their burst as discreet as possible in case they have have been stolen in the past or have a murky history. Joe B's latest burst has said murky history but I think it was all cleared up by a court case. 

p90fool

bbill335 said:

shugz said:

i hadn't heard this before, thanks for sharing. does anyone else hear a fuzzbox in there? 

I'm just hearing those Marshall 4-hole Presence control frequencies, they spit fire when the volume is flat out, in a slightly chaotic way that amp modellers never bother to reproduce. 

It's a little rough around the edges for modern ears, but to me the way the high treble is way over the top but still with a softened, feathery edge is an elusive and lovely thing. 

But maybe it's just that my ears are bollocksed by gigging them myself too often.

fretfinder

designerseye88 said:

I think the majority of bursts are accounted for or at least known. 

There’s the known knowns, the unknown knowns, and the unknown unknowns. 

The known unknowns are mostly Terry Morgans. 

tony99

designerseye88 said:

I think the majority of bursts are accounted for or at least known, What we see being sold through big dealers and on the burst serial log is just the tip of the iceberg. Most sales are private and done through independent 3rd parties. Occasionally they are still found like the recent 1960 that was found in their dads wardrobe.

https://www.my1960gibsonburst.com/

But I think a lot of collectors and owners keep the identity of their burst as discreet as possible in case they have have been stolen in the past or have a murky history. Joe B's latest burst has said murky history but I think it was all cleared up by a court case. 

I've got an LP traditional in the classifieds that looks just like that one, check it out.