So my Belle Epoch Deluxe order cancelled - Volante bought. Am now overwhelmed.

Seziertisch

Grunfeld said:

John_A said:

Or a Boss DD-3

Many a true word... and all that, but I went back to a DD-3 about a year ago and its simplicity has been liberating.  I kind of still feel a bit unhappy that something so simple works best for me.

And if you want to add “tape mojo” to it, just pair it up with a Chasetone or ClinchFx Echoplex preamp pedal

WiresDreamDisasters

Grunfeld said:

John_A said:

Or a Boss DD-3

Many a true word... and all that, but I went back to a DD-3 about a year ago and its simplicity has been liberating.  I kind of still feel a bit unhappy that something so simple works best for me.

Ah don't be unhappy. All the big cool gadgets in the world aren't going to change the core of someone's music. I get a bit (okay a lot) of schtick for my cyclical gearing (which to be fair has calmed down quite a lot in recent years) but I gigged with two DD7's and an RV5 for years, and my tones were amazing!

Nowt wrong with the humble DD3.

Jonathanthomas83

I need to try a DD pedal in anger. One of the small ones. I'm fairly confident it'll do what I need it to do.

soma1975

Anyone know if this will work with the Volante? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000NLRWEI/

WiresDreamDisasters

Yes I believe it will, but they're a bit plasticky and cheap. Just be warned it might not survive longer than a year.

soma1975

Cool. just wanted to see if I had any need  for one before getting something worthwhile. 

Fishboy7

There is one Belle Epoch Deluxe in stock @ Andertons.  £289 now though. 

soma1975

yeah probably the one I cancelled my order of

EricTheWeary

soma1975 said:

I think it's more that the Helix sounds dogshit* and he's just being diplomatic about why they don't feature that stuff on the show. 


* Other opinions may vary

If everyone bought a Helix no one would need a Gigrig! See also TPS not showing other looping systems that are available. Their game, their rules. 

impmann

EricTheWeary said:

soma1975 said:

I think it's more that the Helix sounds dogshit* and he's just being diplomatic about why they don't feature that stuff on the show. 


* Other opinions may vary

If everyone bought a Helix they'd all want to replace it with a Gigrig! See also TPS not showing other looping systems that are available. Their game, their rules. 

FTFY

Seziertisch

EricTheWeary said:

If everyone bought a Helix no one would need a Gigrig! See also TPS not showing other looping systems that are available. Their game, their rules. 

True that. As a Midi-Controller the Helix seems to be a lot more capable than the G2 and in terms of other functionality, the fact that it has loops and offers very flexible routing it is not a million miles away.

Even though its called That Pedal Show, the seem to draw the line at using real amps. They have no issue using digital pedals. They have no issue using digital cab/mic simulation (UA Ox etc.), even though in terms of what you are hearing back the speaker cab and mic probably have a greater impact than the amp used. The fact that they are an online show, they use digital converters and apply digital models of various pieces of outboard gear (Neve channel strips etc.) after the fact; a lot of studio folk if given the choice would go for a " lesser" guitar amp with a great analogue channel strip over a "great" amp with digital processing being applied after the fact. All these other areas are open to discussion, but somehow the amp remains sacred.

I watched the recent episode where they were demoing the Strymon Iridium and comparing it to their real amp sounds. Honestly, for all their efforts to set up mics in their properly treated room and then apply processing at mix down, I didn't think the real amps sounded better than the Iridium.

The Iridium amps sounded different - just different, not better or worse, and more importantly were just as usable and not in any way a compromise. 

I'm sure there was a difference in how the real amps and the sims reacted under the fingers (what with them sitting right beside the real thing with the volume fairly cranked) but it certainly wasn't coming through in the audio on playback.

soma1975

So make your own videos then. 

It's two blokes playing stuff that they like or that inspires them. Oh, and one of them makes power supplies and controllers. They don't really owe you or I anything. 

Or maybe, and this is some crazy shit, but maybe it's because amps sound or feel better to them? 

EDIT: For what it's worth I thought the amps sounded much better than the Iridium, but sound is not the only factor in why you might prefer a valve amp. 

I've heard better sounding Iridium demos from other people. 

Seziertisch

soma1975 said:

So make your own videos then. 

It's two blokes playing stuff that they like or that inspires them. Oh, and one of them makes power supplies and controllers. They don't really owe you or I anything. 

Or maybe, and this is some crazy shit, but maybe it's because amps sound or feel better to them? 

EDIT: For what it's worth I thought the amps sounded much better than the Iridium, but sound is not the only factor in why you might prefer a valve amp. 

I've heard better sounding Iridium demos from other people. 

For the record I have both an older GigRig switcher and a full board powered with GigRig stuff as well as a Helix and use them together all the time. 

I just find their seeming lack of flexibility when it comes to using real amplifiers puzzling. They say stuff like this or that digital modeller is too complicated for us, then turn around and use other pedals which are much more complicated (such as the TimeLine, maybe not the Volante).

And why draw the line at using a modeller vs a real amp but not take the same stance when it comes to say a Volante vs a real Echorec? A real amp sounds and feels better than a modeller, but I would guess that a real Echorec sounds and feels better than the Volante for example? 

I haven't used either, but I have first hand experience of a real Space Echo and a number of digital emulations and the real thing is like an instrument in itself, like a completely different level, I'm sure the same is true of the real Echorec. I'd nearly go so far as to say that if someone gave me a choice between a real Space Echo with a modelled amp vs a Space Echo emulation with a real amp, I'd nearly go for the former.

Of course, going back to the Volante/Echorec comparison, a real Echorec is quite expensive and maintaining one is also no mean feat (I considered briefly getting one, but having checked out the Echorec rebuild stuff on the Effectrode site, it scared me off as a potential money pit going forward). Though the same can be said of maintaining amps, particularly vintage ones. 

Anyway, I'm sorry for derailing your thread. I hope you get the hang of the Volante.

soma1975

Have you watched the episode where they test tape delays?

They clearly prefer the sound but it's clearly too much of a ballache to use on a regular basis. 

A well maintained valve amp really isn't a ballache to use at all and they are a hell of a lot easier to fix than a Helix. 


As for the rest they are probably just being diplomatic and can't be naffed with tons of abuse if they feature Kempers and whatnot and say anything other than it's the greatest ever111111!!!

Seziertisch

soma1975 said:

Have you watched the episode where they test tape delays?

They clearly prefer the sound but it's clearly too much of a ballache to use on a regular basis. 

A well maintained valve amp really isn't a ballache to use at all and they are a hell of a lot easier to fix than a Helix. 


As for the rest they are probably just being diplomatic and can't be naffed with tons of abuse if they feature Kempers and whatnot and say anything other than it's the greatest ever111111!!!

Regarding valve amps not being a ballache I have to disagree (particularly if you are trying to record them).

I know one vintage guitar shop owner who is considering no longer selling guitar amps (both newer and vintage). He said the aftersales support required a lot of the time nearly makes it not worth it. You sell a serviced guitar to somebody and you probably never see them again, you sell a serviced amp and they are back to you 6 months later saying, "oh yeah, it has developed a noise ..."

And guitar amps in a studio situation - "it sounds different today from what it sounded yesterday", "ok, well yesterday it had been on for a couple of hours before we started recording and today we turned it on 20 minutes ago, so we wait" or that thing that happens to an amp that has developed a fault, where it sounds amazing about for a window of time before dying, except when we tracked the main guitar part we didn't know it was dying, and now we want to replace or redo 15 seconds of the the track and the only way to do that is to redo the whole thing using a different amp.

And recording guitar amps in a non-studio or non-traditional situation - weird resonances resulting from the cab coupling with the room, putting tents up around amp and mics to keep unwanted reflections out, moving mics around to try and minimise or remove these problem artefacts, the list goes on. And even if you don't have a problematic space, the effort that goes into putting mics up and getting the phasing right and balancing amp levels with what the optimum sound pressure level is for the mics you are using and setting proper gainstaging on the preamps and the converters, now that is a ballache. A real tape delay, even a temperamental one, is walk in the park by comparison. And likewise, the Iridium/Kemper/Helix etc. are a piece of cake to use compared to setting up amps and mics.

The strength and weakness of modeller's is that they offer a very polished "professional" sound, for example Kemper profiles are professionally recorded in optimised spaces by professionals using the best gear. They will likely sound "better" than a recording made in your bathroom or rehearsal space or possibly even a budget/mid-level studio depending on the space you are recording in and the skill of the engineer and the gear you are using (in that order of importance, I would say). I honestly think that in the format in which That Pedal Show exists, as a show on YouTube, there is a very real chance that something like the Kemper might actually sound better on playback than what they are getting in the room.  I guess we'll never know :-)

soma1975

In the nicest possible way I truly don't care... I like valve amps. I've never had an issue with a valve amp past changing valves. 

But please can all that modellers vs amps stuff be kept for another thread? This is about Volantes and occasionally BEDs. 

WiresDreamDisasters

FWIW I think the Helix is amazing and I think GigRig stuff is overpriced for what it brings to the table. Much rather have a Boss ES5/ES8.

hotpickups

EricTheWeary said:

soma1975 said:

I think it's more that the Helix sounds dogshit* and he's just being diplomatic about why they don't feature that stuff on the show. 


* Other opinions may vary

If everyone bought a Helix no one would need a Gigrig! See also TPS not showing other looping systems that are available. Their game, their rules. 

I asked TPS that very same question I.e. other switching systems once. They won’t be doing a show on them I gathered from their answer. Silly really because they are an integral part of a lot of guitarists pedal boards 

soma1975

Why would they though?

JHS bigs up other makers' pedals to detract from that fact all his pedals are other people's pedals. 

Why would you spend ages designing and producing a product and then do a video dedicated to taking sales from yourself? I

AntonHunter

soma1975 said:

JHS bigs up other makers' pedals to detract from that fact all his pedals are other people's pedals. 

Have a Wis.